W. K. Lis
Superstar
The process actually started back in 2003. See this link for the rest of the story from 2007. Too bad you thought the notices were junk mail and threw it out at the time.
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Roncesvalles Reconstruction
- Thread starter allabootmatt
- Start date
The process actually started back in 2003. See this link for the rest of the story from 2007. Too bad you thought the notices were junk mail and threw it out at the time.
StIdes
Active Member
The bumpouts are still causing parking spots to vapour. About 20 park spots on Roncesvalles will be gone after the construction. Also now you can't pass streetcars like you normally would on any other street in Toronto (IE Queen, King, Bathurst,). Lets face it, the only time you can pass a streetcar is after it stops at a stop. With a bumpout there, forget it. Cars are going to be lining up behind streetcars on Roncesvalles like floats at the santa claus parade. Traffic will probably going the same speed the parade travels at aswell.
Let's not forget Roncesvalles was a major N-S street in West Toronto between Queen and Bloor before the construction. The traffic volume is only low now because of the construction. Bump-outs would be fine on a one-way small street like in your first picture where cars can still pass on the outside lane, but not a major local arterial road like Roncy with no ways for cars to pass slow moving streetcars.
Well I didnt move to Parkdale until 2004 so maybe that is why I missed it.
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Fred.S
Active Member
20 spots really isn't much out of the 200+ spots. Also, now there aren't rush hour restrictions on parking, meaning you can park on both sides of the street anytime of the day. I live close to Bloor and Dundas, and in my experience, most people going north-south preferred Parkside Dr, Sorauren or Lansdowne. Even though construction has been going on for a while, there's still lots of pedestrian traffic on Roncy, and I haven't noticed any increased congestion on the surrounding major streets. The studies done noticed that Roncy is not a major thoroughfare, and the idea behind the project, recommended by the BIA was to turn Roncy into more of a "destination". In my opinion this is an excellent project that actually matches the street well, and even if you get stuck behind a streetcar, it's a short stretch that really won't add much to your drive.
W. K. Lis
Superstar
Also, the bumpouts are to accommodate the newer, larger, 100% low-floor streetcars, twice the length of the current CLRV's. No more 4 steps to climb.
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Fred.S
Active Member
True, and you're probably not going to make it around those in your car even without the bumpouts due to their length. Should be a much shorter dwell time though when loading/unloading with more and larger doors and all-door no-step boarding.
Will be really interesting to see how this street works in 3 years with the mix of cars, bikes, pedestrians and new LRVs. I'm excited and actually very optimistic about it.
GraphicMatt
Looking forward to a FRESH START for Toronto
Cars racing to pass streetcars when they're stopped often do so when the doors are open or opening, which is totally illegal. Cyclists are bad with this too.
reaperexpress
Senior Member
I was in the Netherlands, and they didn't really have an issue with bicycles. At stops, this was the typical configuration, looking along the road:
tram | platform | bikes | sidewalk
______0000000________00000000
Riders could safely get off the tram onto the platform. It was then up to them to wait for a gap in bicycle traffic or a walk signal to cross to the sidewalk. It sounds more scary than it is, the bike lane is only a few steps wide.
tram | platform | bikes | sidewalk
______0000000________00000000
Riders could safely get off the tram onto the platform. It was then up to them to wait for a gap in bicycle traffic or a walk signal to cross to the sidewalk. It sounds more scary than it is, the bike lane is only a few steps wide.
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StIdes
Active Member
A 10% reduction in parking is no big deal? Tell that to the Roncesvalles business owners.
I'm just going to assume you don't drive in the area or haven't lived there very long if you actually think anyone would consider Sorauren as a more major N-S street over Roncesvalles before the construction. A 30km/h street with speed bumps the whole way, about 6 stop signs and so narrow you can barely fit 2 cars? You gotta be kidding me.
As for the being stuck behind street cars being no big deal because its a short stretch, once again you have to be kidding me. It's 2 km long, that is not exactly a short stretch being stuck behind a street car the whole way. I would say in no exageration that I drive up roncesvalles about 3 times as fast as a street car goes up it, from where I live at Queen and Roncy to Bloor and Roncy/dundas west. 3-4 mins in a car, 10-12 on the street car. The bottom line is it is adding to your drive and that is absoloutely ridiclous backwards thinking notion. All road construction projects in Toronto should be helping traffic situations not making them worse. It's really not rocket science. Who ever planned this abomination needs their head(s) examined.
Fred.S
Active Member
I'd imagine they're well aware since the Roncesvalles BIA fully endorsed the plan and was in favor of more public space over parking.
StIdes
Active Member
The Roncesvalles BIA is mickey mouse. Look at their website it looks like it was designed in 1996 on notepad.exe by a grade 9 student. Every business owner I've talked to (some I know personally) tell me that weren't really involved at all in this construction. They also hate the bumpouts. They don't favour more walking space. It's not like there wasnt plenty of walking space before. Removal of parking hurts most business, if you don't believe that then I'd like to have some of whatever you are smoking, because it must be real good. Honestly how could you even say something so dumb? More parking space = more potential customers. More walking space = ????. You think customers who never walked to roncesvalles before are all of a sudden going to now because the side walk is 2 feet wider? laugh
Anyways where you from bro? You talk to any of the owners or residents around Parkdale about this? Or you just chirping off from the 905?
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Fred.S
Active Member
Well I'll ignore the personal attacks and get to my point. The BIA board is composed entirely of local business owners. They are elected by the businesses on Roncesvalles. I don't know any of the business owners personally as you do (although I do enjoy many of the shops and restuarants on Roncy, so many of them are doing a good job), however it stands to reason that board is representing them, otherwise all the businesses would have outed them over the years this plan existed and replaced their representatives. Maybe there's a disconnect I'm not aware of (I'm not any sort of expert in the inner workings of the BIA), but I haven't seen any protesting or media showing a major dislike in the new street design, except for maybe the long construction schedule and disruptions.
Paleo
Active Member
Since you are new here, you need to know where Stides is coming from. Stides gets very upset at anything that slows (or can potentially slow) the drive around Parkdale. "Roads are for cars." There seems to be a personal distaste in particular for the prohibitions on red light right turns at specific intersections like Queen and Lansdowne/Jameson as it's the nanny staters at City Hall taking away his or her freedom and unjustifiably telling us all how to drive.
Dandy Horse
Active Member
didn't toronto do a study showing that most people that buy things along the commercial streets of downtown arrive not in a car, therfore making it not true that parking spot loss hurts bussiness? mostly the bussinesses only need road accesss for deliveries and the odd spot for out of town visitors? i thought that was common knowledge.
W. K. Lis
Superstar
Yonge Street must be deserted since there is no street parking downtown.
catcher_of_cats
Active Member
It never takes 10-12 minutes to get from Queen to Dundas using the streetcars. FFS, I can walk this distance in under 15 minutes!
StIdes, You do not speak for the majority of shop owners along this stretch, nor even a fraction of the residents who actually spend money along Roncy so stop pretending like you do.