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Rob Ford's Toronto

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The "discussion" showed your failings to carry on a rational conversation at that time, and or showing the same this time with your allusions.

Actually, it just shows your pedantry and proves my point. I'm not bringing up anything to do with Layton - I'm referencing a prior conversation in which very absurd analogies were used which would have any pro-Ford poster deemed a troll or willing to defend Ford by any measures. I referenced several similar past UT conversations (such as the recent Hitler stuff, wishing of death on Ford) in my post. However, simply typing the word 'Layton' allows you an opportunity to brand me as a troll obsessed with Layton's sexual habits.
 

wow Doug almost sort of apologized for something? :eek: well knock me over with a feather! :p
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this is a civil case...reddit is not a good source for information.

actually...

Criminal defamation

In Canada, the so-called "blasphemous libel" is a crime punished with a maximum term of two years in prison, according to Article 296-1 of the Canadian Criminal Code, as well as the crime of "defamatory libel" (Article 298), which receives the same penalty (see Article 301). In the specific case of a "libel known to be false" (Article 300), the prison term increases to a maximum of five years. According to Article 298, a defamatory libel "is matter published, without lawful justification or excuse, that is likely to injure the reputation of any person by exposing him to hatred, contempt or ridicule, or that is designed to insult the person of or concerning whom it is published".[105]

The criminal portion of the law has been rarely applied. In the most recent case, in 1994 Bradley Waugh and Ravin Gill were charged with criminal libel for publicly accusing six prison guards of the racially motivated murder of a black inmate.[106]

According to an Organization for Security and Co-operation in Europe official report on defamation laws issued in 2005, 57 persons in Canada were accused of defamation, libel and insult, among which 23 were convicted – 9 to prison sentences, 19 to probation and one to a fine. The average period in prison was 270 days, and the maximum sentence was 1460 days of imprisonment.[107]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Defamation#Canada
 
From The Globe: http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news...er-to-sue-rob-ford-for-libel/article15932345/

The mayor’s brother Councillor Doug Ford told reporters he doesn’t think Mr. Dale has grounds to sue. “He didn’t say anything,” he told reporters. “He can sue people all day long. Can they stand up in court? No. My personal opinion.”

He went on to describe Mr. Dale’s actions as “reckless,” saying “You can’t be going into some guy’s backyard, especially the mayor’s backyard, have the seniors that live beside him come over and say ‘there is some guy standing on whatever, over your fence taking pictures.’ That’s what they told Rob.”

So that will be the defense; it's the neighbours' fault. :rolleyes:
 
From The Globe: http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news...er-to-sue-rob-ford-for-libel/article15932345/



So that will be the defense; it's the neighbours' fault. :rolleyes:

Won't work. Even if the neighbour did say that, Ford was directly informed that the neighbour's account was not true, and he repeated it as if it were. Repeating a defamation is defamation.

Honestly, I don't see how Ford wriggles out of this one. Ford Nation is already all over Facebook and Twitter calling Dale a stalker and a pedo. My guess is that Ford gives one of his half-assed apologies in a few weeks' time and Dale drops the suit (I doubt he WANTS to see this through; he was reluctant enough to start it).
 
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Actually, it just shows your pedantry and proves my point. I'm not bringing up anything to do with Layton - I'm referencing a prior conversation in which very absurd analogies were used which would have any pro-Ford poster deemed a troll or willing to defend Ford by any measures. I referenced several similar past UT conversations (such as the recent Hitler stuff, wishing of death on Ford) in my post. However, simply typing the word 'Layton' allows you an opportunity to brand me as a troll obsessed with Layton's sexual habits.

I guess you missed the part where the Hitler comparisons were rebuked by several people? Also, who wished death on Ford, and was acknowledged and/or encouraged?

Also we're at the point now where being pro-Ford is an untenable position. Ford is a compulsive liar, and supporting him is completely irrational, unless of course one applies cowboy logic.
 
This is not your living room. In my view it is a public place, where speech should be respected, and protected.

So many things wrong in this post, where do I begin? Suffice it to say, Twitter would NOT shut down this kind of speech. They wouldn't even shut down GAE. And "Free Speech" does not equate to whatever you imperiously pronounce it to be. You're confusing your interpretation of Section 2(b) charter rights with a broader moral right we all acknowledge to exist.

The More You Crow, the less you convince.

I think perhaps you misunderstood me, or I didn't make myself clear. I was not speaking of the recent content when I said Twitter can shut you down, Tumblr pull the plug, etc. I was saying that can (and often do!) shut you down if they like with no free speech implications - because they are not government organizations. The right of free speech does not protect you when dealing with a private party on, or in, their property.

You are correct in that this is based on Section 2(b), which has ample case law available for review - I'm unsure where your "broader moral right" comes from, but if you can point to any case law on it, I'd actually be interested in reviewing it, and that's not a snark, it's an honest request.

And regarding your first comment, I'm sorry to pint out that internet boards, blogs and the like are not public property. As a participant in any online space, your speech is pretty much always curtailed, in the letter of the law if not always in practise, by the terms and conditions you agreed to when joining the community. The owners and operators of a site are not obligated to give you a free platform for your views.

The only way to guarantee the maximum unfettered free speech online is to run and host your own system.

Interestingly, even when dealing with the government, free speech is a "negative right" rather than a "positive right" - i.e. the government has a responsibility to NOT take action in blocking you, not the responsibility to take action and provide a soapbox or platform for your views.

By the way, none of the above is my "imperiously pronouncement," it is, as far as I know, just the legal condition. Please correct me if I'm wrong, I never did finish law school. :p

And I meant it when I called it my bete noir: it irritates me when people grandly announce that the world owes them a free platform to preach, without criticism or consequence. Maybe I'm turning into a curmudgeon, but they just come across as spoiled and selfish, demanding and full of an exaggerated sense of entitlement. In other words, just like me, back in my 20s. :D
 
I guess you missed the part where the Hitler comparisons were rebuked by several people? Also, who wished death on Ford, and was acknowledged and/or encouraged?

Yeah, rebuked by several people and endorsed by several others. And still rebuked less than a typical Peepers post.

If you want me to go back and find examples, I will. It happened. Multiple times. But I need a week.

Also we're at the point now where being pro-Ford is an untenable position. Ford is a compulsive liar, and supporting him is completely irrational, unless of course one applies cowboy logic.

That just proves everything I was saying. You essentially agree with me then: anyone pro-Ford is considered to be a troll on here.
 
If Dale were file a claim against Rob, he would probably have to stop covering City Hall, at least for the remainder of Ford's term. No matter how ethical he may be, his coverage would be compromised by his role in the larger story. I'm pretty sure that's a big issue for Daniel. He strikes me as someone who thrives on reporting, and is probably weighing the options of where he can do the most good. I wouldn't blame him at all for choosing journalism over a defamation suit. Frankly, that might be better for all of us.

Ford is making blatant accusations against the Toronto police and he's still sitting in on negotiations with them, so why should Dale be inclined to resign from covering city hall? In fact every reasonable person in Toronto wants Ford's head on a stake, why would this law suit make Dale's situation any different, if you catch my drift?
 
Actually, it just shows your pedantry and proves my point. I'm not bringing up anything to do with Layton - I'm referencing a prior conversation in which very absurd analogies were used which would have any pro-Ford poster deemed a troll or willing to defend Ford by any measures. I referenced several similar past UT conversations (such as the recent Hitler stuff, wishing of death on Ford) in my post. However, simply typing the word 'Layton' allows you an opportunity to brand me as a troll obsessed with Layton's sexual habits.

It's been said that the devil is in the details. It appears that you have a persecution complex since I don't recall using the word troll or trolling at all in any present conversation with you. Your allusions are easy to understand, like a first grade reader with pictures for all the big words.

You should go back and truly pay attention to the contexts argued.

I guess you missed the part where the Hitler comparisons were rebuked by several people? Also, who wished death on Ford, and was acknowledged and/or encouraged?

Also we're at the point now where being pro-Ford is an untenable position. Ford is a compulsive liar, and supporting him is completely irrational, unless of course one applies cowboy logic.

Ouch!
 
Internet messages boards, chat rooms, comment forums, etc., are NOT public spaces, so please don't kid yourself. They are privately owned and often moderated; the owners and moderators are free to set whatever terms of use and restrictions they like; they can bar you for any reason they see fit (ideally they are reasonable and at least tie it to violations of the terms of use), and you really have little "right" or legal recourse to fall back on. Just because it's free to sign up does not make it a free-for-all. Good owners and moderators have a vested interest in keeping the community harmonious and functional, so users don't leave.

So that's the "letter of law" context. If you're trying to invoke some kind of "spirit of free speech and fulsome debate" argument on behalf of Peepers... come on. It seems to me that a solid number of UT users had legitimate problems with a lot of what Peepers was posting---he was certainly called out countless times for intellectual dishonesty and arguing in bad faith. Users would often try to engage him and from what I saw he would largely sidestep the responses. The pattern was mostly to show up, poison the well with statements any idiot would know to be inflammatory within the context, and disappear. Eventually the majority got fed up and started complaining more regularly to the mods, who, quite simply, did their job.

Well said. I oversee a team of moderators on another forum, and that's the reasoning we use. To quote an admin: a forum is like a house party. Everyone is welcome, but you act inappropriately and we'll ask you to sort yourself out, or leave.
We have rules to make it easier for us to point members to whatever rule they broke, but our rules are by no means law and are definitely up for interpretation at any time by any member of the moderation team. I'd just leave it at one rule: keep the community happy and healthy, and eject anyone that's an obvious nuisance. You give me some freedom of speech excuse? I'll just tell you to take it to Facebook or tumblr.

In fact, on UT (where conversations are far more intelligent than your average forum, I'll admit), be grateful that the mods here will openly discuss and post evidence of WHY people are banned. On my forum we don't tolerate members questioning moderation in publicly viewable forums, or derailing topics with questions of why people were banned.

Anyways, back on topic: glad the lawsuit is going ahead. I'd prefer Doug was named just as equally as Rob - it's infuriating how he openly berates people in front of cameras and it won't matter much anyway as he's done with City Hall come 2014.
 
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