Rob Ford's Toronto

[TheTigerMaster]

Exactly. With Transit City, for instance, Ford merely succeeded in delaying such desperately needed transit by blathering "subways" over and over again. Everyone who knows anything knows that suburban subways are impossible and idiotic, but I don't think Ford and his goons want subways; they just want to obstruct all public transit development by insisting on obviously-impossible proposals. It's an obstruction tactic.

What frustrates me about this is that I cannot possibly understand the logic behind it. Why dosen't Ford want more transit across the city? His thinking makes no sense.

 

[TonyV]

Exactly. With Transit City, for instance, Ford merely succeeded in delaying such desperately needed transit by blathering "subways" over and over again. Everyone who knows anything knows that suburban subways are impossible and idiotic, but I don't think Ford and his goons want subways; they just want to obstruct all public transit development by insisting on obviously-impossible proposals. It's an obstruction tactic.

You are correct. It's all obstructionist tactics. If there was any conviction Ford would have come up with funding formulae, instead of believing in what Dwight Duncan termed the "transit fairy".

Ford is a waste of space, and a waste of time. Thank the outer-416 voters for ... nothing.

 

[RC8]

Yesterday I was talking to a really nice sensitive and progressive girl from Brampton who would pretty much feel as if her human rights were being infringed if driving was made even more difficult for her than it already is. She and plenty of others feel that there is simply no alternative to the car where they live, and that's that.

Suburban drivers in Canada are very highly subsidised and they get very defensive when you threaten to take that away from them - even if it's the socially responsible AND fiscally conservative thing to do.

 

[Tulse]

Let's not over-intellectualise this phenomenon. All it really boils down to is a bunch of emotionally self-conscious and financially insecure poorly-educated individuals voting for someone who they perceive shares some of their own concerns and anxieties.

That's absolutely true, but the nature of their concerns and anxieties are around government (and somewhat social issues as well): taxes, regulations, imposition of new restrictions on motorists, etc. etc. Their concerns are ultimately about change that might be imposed, much more so than about issues where change is needed. As a result, they're happy to see government at a standstill.

(By contrast, in the past there have been populist movements that have been similarly lacking in intellectual rigour, but where the demand was for action by the government against change being imposed from outside, such as immigration, foreign trade, crime, etc.)

 

[dt_toronto_geek]

Rather than offering a candidate, I'll offer a fantasy mayoral race: Michael Thompson vs Kristyn Wong-Tam.

Thompson, no thanks (I'd take him over Ford any day though) and we need Kristyn Wong-Tam for another term yet for her to gain the experience she needs if she ever decides to run, and because we need her right now in this busy Ward. However, in a fantasy campaign I could see Thompson winning.

 

[arvelomcquaig]

No, they're just not really conservative. They're populists. There's a clear distinction between the two. Anyone listening into the Ford talk show?

For those who aren't, here's Robyn Dolittle, who's following the talk show:
https://twitter.com/robyndoolittle

They're not only populists, though; they're specifically right-wing populists, since they're champions of radical individualism. The "little guy" that they claim to fight for is the suburban upper/middle-class white heterosexual archetypal doofus male that refuses to consider the interests/existence of anyone else on the planet. I've been thinking lately about how they're basically the embodiment of the exact opposite of my values. I can’t wait until they're gone.

 

[arvelomcquaig]

What frustrates me about this is that I cannot possibly understand the logic behind it. Why dosen't Ford want more transit across the city? His thinking makes no sense.

Simple: Because it costs money, and he only cares about well-off people in the suburbs; they exclusively drive everywhere they go, and he wants them to pay as little as humanly possible in taxes.

 

[RC8]

You say that as if people who drive everywhere didn't cost the government more money than non-drivers. No individualism or fiscal conservative ideals there.

As far as I can tell (and according to numerous polls) upper middle-class heterosexual white males are not very likely to support Ford at all.

 

[TOvp]

...The "little guy" that they claim to fight for is the suburban upper/middle-class white heterosexual archetypal doofus male that refuses to consider the interests/existence of anyone else on the planet.

You've hit the nail on the head with your assessment of Ford supporters. Also add in the 50+ stereotypical retired Etobicoke housewife, who has never had to earn income and fails to understand why it is so difficult for others to do.

These are the people whose conversations I hear weekdays at Etobicoke cafes and school council meetings.

They consistently decry taxes and tax cheaters, yet have no qualms about supporting it by buying and hiring under the table. So long as taxes are low, it doesn't matter what services crumble or are lost.

They've got their private Thorncrest community centre so all is well.

 

[arvelomcquaig]

RC8: Yeah, of course drivers cost everyone, but driving is the GTA status quo, and Fordians act as though car infrastructure/driving is a natural, God-given right, whereas one new bike lane is a massive entitlement. It's individualism in the sense that these people think that they should be able to drive no matter how it affects anyone else; their values exist in a consideration-sealed vacuum.

And where on earth did you hear that upper or middle-class heterosexual white males are commonly critics of the mayor? If that's true, it's absolutely mind-boggling, since that's who he exclusively fights for, and that's who traditionally shares Fordian values.

 

[calimehtar]

Assuming something big enough to force Ford to resign doesn't happen before the next election, I see two likely scenarios:
- Rob Ford wins again
- A reasonable right or centrist candidate splits the vote on the right and causes a reasonable leftist candidate to win

It really does seem like Ford has a big chunk of the right-wing vote locked up, and while I'd like to see a decent centrist win, ie Tory, since it would ease the polarization of politics in the city, I wonder if such a person could win enough votes away from Ford. Imagine a 3-way race between Ford, Tory and Chow - I have a feeling Chow would win, with Ford a close second. A two way race is unlikely, and in a matchup with two good leftist canadidates I think the odds swing back in Ford's favour.

 

[TheTigerMaster]

They're not only populists, though; they're specifically right-wing populists, since they're champions of radical individualism. The "little guy" that they claim to fight for is the suburban upper/middle-class white heterosexual archetypal doofus male that refuses to consider the interests/existence of anyone else on the planet. I've been thinking lately about how they're basically the embodiment of the exact opposite of my values. I can’t wait until they're gone.

I also have to add that he does have a huge amount of support among poorer immigrants in the inner suburbs. Ironically, many see Ford as someone who "one of them" and is fighting the "elitists". They couldn't pick a worse person to represent them.

 

[canmark]

No surprise. Mayor says he’ll choose cottage over Pride parade again this year

 

[adma]

Thompson, no thanks (I'd take him over Ford any day though) and we need Kristyn Wong-Tam for another term yet for her to gain the experience she needs if she ever decides to run, and because we need her right now in this busy Ward. However, in a fantasy campaign I could see Thompson winning.

NB: I'm not quite *endorsing*. But in fact, as far as right-of-centre standard-bearers go, that "no thanks-ness" is what likely gives Thompson a heads-up over Tory and Stintz at this point--i.e. through his exec-committee duty, he's more likely to retain the "Ford/Lastman populist" voting contingent. (And it's interesting that he isn't as prone to lefty-bash pyrotechnics as some of his past or present exec-committee counterparts.) Indeed, a most critical hypothetical might be if *both* Thompson *and* Ford run in '14--and that's where my more-likely-to-steal-the-Ford-base logic takes root. That is, Thompson could win with the silent majority of Ford Nation's own "silent majority"--something I'm having increasing doubts that those "fantasy moderate-right" candidates Tory or Stintz can do. (But of course, that also means he could wind up stealing the "suburban Chow vote" as well.)

Put it this way: if both Ford and Thompson ran in '14, I can see the Toronto Sun endorsing Thompson.

Wong-Tam: practically speaking, I agree that '14 would be jumping the gun. But in the bigger picture, I can see her as the Obama to Chow's Hillary, and thanks to her people skills a *real* potential sleeper in the outer-416--when it comes to appealing to critical masses, almost like Rob Ford in reverse. Maybe not enough vs Thompson in '14, but maybe more so vs an incumbent Thompson in '18...

 

[Peepers]

Rather than offering a candidate, I'll offer a fantasy mayoral race: Michael Thompson vs Kristyn Wong-Tam.

If I had to pick a Mayor from the current crop of Councillors Michael Thompson would be at the top of the list. I don't understand why his name is never mentioned as a possible contender. As for Wong-Tam I think at this point it will be next to impossible for her to win re-election in her ward much less win a Mayors race. She won her ward with the tiniest of margins when she was an unknown commodity. Now that voters have a better idea of what makes Wong-Tam tick (she bankrolled QuAIA) a lot of voters are completely turned-off her. In a Mayoral race I can't see where she would have support - I'd vote Kevin Clarke for Mayor before I would vote for Wong-Tam.