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Rob Ford's Toronto

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js97

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From The Star:



I guess children and stay-at-home parents are not taxpayers!
Well, directly, they are not tax payers. They don't generate income that fund property taxes. Yes, there are many indirect benefits to society over the long term, that stay-at-home moms contribute to, but that's a seperate discussion.

BUT... things to consider:

1. Why are libraries renting out feature movies? - That should be cut.

2. It's so wrong to charge for public pools, maybe the Parks and rec employees can take a benefits cut and just offer part time employment - lifeguards are generally students/part-timers anyways.

3. Riverdale farm. how much is it to run this place? - Maybe they can put a Tims (or local Coffee shop - Jet Fuel part deux in there to pay for the place. It would cost more to administer than the actual revenue it would generate...



On a side note, Ford has managed to cut 60 dollars off my car fee, but will raise a 100.00-150.00 from my property tax increase...

One could say this is progressive taxation - Tax the rich and landowners... not the car owners. Interesting how closely the far left and right resemble each other.
 
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DSC

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1.Why are libraries renting out feature movies? - That should be cut. Good idea :->, our libraries should only lend old and preferably unwanted DVDs - no Academy Award winners - and why should they lend in-print books?

2. It's so wrong to charge for public pools, maybe the Parks and rec employees can take a benefits cut and just offer part time employment - lifeguards are generally students/part-timers anyways. The City charges for indoor pools and most other recreation services so MAYBE charging for outdoor ones is not totally unreasonable. Using students and oart-times is the norm but someone needs to be in charge and I certainly want to have trained lifeguards and trained folk to certify the water etc.

3. Riverdale farm. how much is it to run this place? - Maybe they can put a Tims (or local Coffee shop - Jet Fuel part deux in there to pay for the place. It would cost more to administer than the actual revenue it would generate... Riverdale Farm has several entrances and has a pathway running right through it. Charging for entry makes little sense and would be expensive to implement - a proper cafe there might actually make some money, the Friends Group is suggesting a voluntary contribution box (or boxes).
 

W. K. Lis

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Well, directly, they are not tax payers. They don't generate income that fund property taxes. Yes, there are many indirect benefits to society over the long term, that stay-at-home moms contribute to, but that's a seperate discussion.

BUT... things to consider:

1. Why are libraries renting out feature movies? - That should be cut.

2. It's so wrong to charge for public pools, maybe the Parks and rec employees can take a benefits cut and just offer part time employment - lifeguards are generally students/part-timers anyways.

3. Riverdale farm. how much is it to run this place? - Maybe they can put a Tims (or local Coffee shop - Jet Fuel part deux in there to pay for the place. It would cost more to administer than the actual revenue it would generate...



On a side note, Ford has managed to cut 60 dollars off my car fee, but will raise a 100.00-150.00 from my property tax increase...

One could say this is progressive taxation - Tax the rich and landowners... not the car owners. Interesting how closely the far left and right resemble each other.
It'll also be more expensive to collect admission to the pools or Riverdale Farm. You'll have to pay someone to collect the money. You'll need security to guard the money. You'll also need accounting clerks to record the money.
 

nfitz

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On a side note, Ford has managed to cut 60 dollars off my car fee, but will raise a 100.00-150.00 from my property tax increase...

One could say this is progressive taxation - Tax the rich and landowners... not the car owners. Interesting how closely the far left and right resemble each other.
A 100$ increase in property tax, would mean your currently paying $4,000 a year. $150 would mean $6,000 a year. That would mean your property was valued at about $712,000 to $1,068,000 in 2011 for tax purposes (with the 0.5619218% 2011 city tax rate), and we are in year 3 of 4 of phasing in the 2008 valuation over the 2005 valuation, this would be about what your house was worth in late 2006. Personally I see about a 40% increase in value of my house over the 2011 value for property taxes, so assuming you've reported your increase correctly, your house is currently worth about $1 million to $1.5 million. Given how much the house has increased in value, and only a $100 tax increase in 2 years ... I'm not sure that we are seeing tax the rich and landowners. Looks more like nickel and dime transit users and swimmers to me ...
 

canmark

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From the Toronto Star blog: http://livenews.thestar.com/Event/Residents_get_their_chance_to_critique_the_budget

Day care supporters couldn't wait to have their say, marching up to Mayor Ford’s office about 9:40 a.m. this morning. They weren’t admitted but that didn't stop them from singing this song, sung to the tune of "You're A Mean One Mr. Grinch."

"You’re a mean one Mr. Ford,
"These cuts make you a heel,
"You’re as cuddly as a cactus,
"You’re as charming as an eel,
"Mr. Forrrrrd!"

"Your plan is a bad banana,
"With a greasy, black peel!
"You’re a foul one, Mr. Ford,
"Closing child care’s a nasty stunt,
"Your heart is full of unwashed socks,
"Your soul is full of gunk,
"Mr. Forrrrrd!"
 

js97

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It'll also be more expensive to collect admission to the pools or Riverdale Farm. You'll have to pay someone to collect the money. You'll need security to guard the money. You'll also need accounting clerks to record the money.
Agreed, that's what I'm saying it's a poorly implemented solution (if it's a solution at all).

One could argue and say it's a make work project. Hire a full time city employee with benefits to collect a sum that will most likely be less than the cost of implementation....
 
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js97

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A 100$ increase in property tax, would mean your currently paying $4,000 a year. $150 would mean $6,000 a year. That would mean your property was valued at about $712,000 to $1,068,000 in 2011 for tax purposes (with the 0.5619218% 2011 city tax rate), and we are in year 3 of 4 of phasing in the 2008 valuation over the 2005 valuation, this would be about what your house was worth in late 2006. Personally I see about a 40% increase in value of my house over the 2011 value for property taxes, so assuming you've reported your increase correctly, your house is currently worth about $1 million to $1.5 million. Given how much the house has increased in value, and only a $100 tax increase in 2 years ... I'm not sure that we are seeing tax the rich and landowners. Looks more like nickel and dime transit users and swimmers to me ...
Funny Miller did exactly the same thing. He increased/introduced user fees, including cost of the TTC (but selective memory always works for hardliners) Wasn't ttc around 2.00 per ride when Miller took over?


And regarding you're assessment of property values, I can tell you if my house was worth anywhere near 700k to 1M... I would sell it immediately! (and would retire if my home valuation was worth 1-1.5 M by your calculations.

My bill is almost at 5k...and not nearly valued at your rates... Definately means I'm overpaying for my property!
 

nfitz

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Funny Miller did exactly the same thing.
He froze taxes, cut taxes for drivers but increased TTC fares, cut TTC service, raised user fees and cut services? I'm not sure what what dimension that happened in ... perhaps it was the one where he gave children the finger and got arrested for beating his wife.

My bill is almost at 5k...and not nearly valued at your rates... Definately means I'm overpaying for my property!
Then there is something amiss. I just pulled my final City of Toronto property tax bill for 2011. The City tax was $2,069.28 on an assessed value of $368,250. The January 1, 2008 MPAC assessed value is $380,000, which is about $500 difference between what I paid for it a couple of months earlier. If your city tax was double mine - $4,140 then your assessed value would be over $730,000 and the January 1 2008 value would have been about $750K. With house prices up about 20% since then you'd be worth at least $900K. Either there's something wrong with your numbers (are you including the education tax, which goes to the Province, and is the same rate province-wide?), you got really screwed on you assessment (you can appeal, and they are quite reasonable, if it's clear the value isn't correct), or your house is worth a lot more than you think (I was suprised looking at my neighbours assessed values, that the house next to me is closer to $750K ... but then I looked at the data, and there's a lot more square feet in that house ... around here, houses are typically narrow and long, are wider and shorter. This one is both ... and has a higher value than it's neighbours).

I'd recommend checking your valuation against your neighbours, and checking mls.ca to see what houses are selling for in your neighbourhood.
 
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W. K. Lis

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He froze taxes, cut taxes for drivers but increased TTC fares, cut TTC service, raised user fees and cut services? I'm not sure what what dimension that happened in ... perhaps it was the one where he gave children the finger and got arrested for beating his wife.

Then there is something amiss. I just pulled my final City of Toronto property tax bill for 2011. The City tax was $2,069.28 on an assessed value of $368,250. The January 1, 2008 MPAC assessed value is $380,000, which is about $500 difference between what I paid for it a couple of months earlier. If your city tax was double mine - $4,140 then your assessed value would be over $730,000 and the January 1 2008 value would have been about $750K. With house prices up about 20% since then you'd be worth at least $900K. Either there's something wrong with your numbers (are you including the education tax, which goes to the Province, and is the same rate province-wide?), you got really screwed on you assessment (you can appeal, and they are quite reasonable, if it's clear the value isn't correct), or your house is worth a lot more than you think (I was suprised looking at my neighbours assessed values, that the house next to me is closer to $750K ... but then I looked at the data, and there's a lot more square feet in that house ... around here, houses are typically narrow and long, are wider and shorter. This one is both ... and has a higher value than it's neighbours).

I'd recommend checking your valuation against your neighbours, and checking mls.ca to see what houses are selling for in your neighbourhood.
Want to lower your property taxes? Let the property go down, don't fix anything on the property. If something breaks on your property, don't fix it. Finally, tear it down and convert it to farmland (farmland has the lowest tax rate).
 

nfitz

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Want to lower your property taxes? Let the property go down, don't fix anything on the property. If something breaks on your property, don't fix it. Finally, tear it down and convert it to farmland (farmland has the lowest tax rate).
From the time I was talking to them about my assessment, you'd be decades before you see any adjustment just by letting it go.

Tearing it down would be effective though. I'm not sure that it would be cost-effective ...

Even though their assessment of my house was riddled with math errors (areas, heights, etc.) the ONLY thing that made them treat it seriously was when I provided documentation that the house had sat on the market unsold for about 5 months at about the price they actually valued it at end of 2007, in a very hot 2007 real estate market, and it only moved when they dropped the sale price by $70,000.
 
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natpo: "Rob Ford’s former brother-in-law found guilty of 2009 attempted murder" --why many conservatives think lieberrals don't like Rob Ford. Sun readers see headlines like this and literally get angry about pinkos. It's a strawman magnet.
 
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