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Rob Ford's Toronto

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Eug said:
I think unions are sometimes necessary. I also think some unions do spoil people through a sense of entitlement.

If you've ever been on the hiring side you'd know how tough it is to fire problem employees if they're part of an large and aggressive union. We have people shuttled from dept. to dept. because they have seniority and can't be fired, but nobody wants them because they are dead weight. Similarly, it's sometimes difficult to hire specific individuals because they don't have enough seniority in the system.

OTOH, without a union some companies are more than willing to take advantage of its employees, which is why in some instances unions are necessary.
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A classic example is some of the news releases I have read about TTC payscale - mostly highlighting wage freezes for all non-union employees. When you have a public job your livelihood is subject to the whims of the politics of the day - unions protect against that. No doubt they protect many lazy/useless people also, but IMO they are a net benefit.
 
Eug said:
If you've ever been on the hiring side you'd know how tough it is to fire problem employees if they're part of an large and aggressive union.
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As the saying goes, it takes two to tango. Contracts are negotiated between the union and employer -- there is nothing in a contract that an employer hasn't agreed to. It is absurd for employers to complain that a collective agreement makes firing difficult when they were the ones who signed the agreement.

My spouse used to chair an academic union, and also worked as their grievance officer, and she routinely complained that when there were genuinely bad employees, the employer refused to use the means they had available for discipline and/or firing. The university would bitch about the situation, but simply wouldn't go through the mutually-agreed process for firing. It was frustrating for her, because she was required to serve as the advocate for the bad employee, even though she knew that a) they should be fired, and b) they could be fired, if only the university would follow the contract.
 
paraone said:
say his salary is $65,000 minus taxes and deductions that is paycheque of about $1700 every two weeks, about $3400 a month and you all think that is grossly inflated? To live in this city with 4 kids? what world are you guys living in? That is not a huge salary by any stretch, that is barely livable in this city. Some people just like to complain about anyone they see as "lazy" what is the difference between this guy sitting in a booth or a receptionist sitting at a desk?
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Oh please, spare us the bullshit. I make just under that and have never had a problem making ends meet.
60,000/year should be where the salary maxes out for such a position.
 
paraone said:
you really think $40,000 is generous? I'd hate to know what you do for a living I made more than that fresh out of school and I am by no means rich or a part of the "higher class"
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40,000 ten years ago. Have you heard of a little thing called inflation?
 
Eug said:
Agreed, but the left leaning governments have kowtowed to the unions for a very long time. Therein lies the problem, and hence the rise of Ford. If things had been kept in check financially, I suspect Ford would never have been elected.
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Oh please, it was Ford that gave the police union their biggest pay increase ever. Do some research, the right has kowtowed to the unions just as much as the left. Neither is perfect.
 
Thanos said:
Oh please, spare us the bullshit. I make just under that and have never had a problem making ends meet.
60,000/year should be where the salary maxes out for such a position.
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well good for you!! I'm glad your content with your lot in life but don't blame others for making more than you.
do you have 4 kids and a wife to support? are they in university? and don't throw the old argument that... "well they should have thought about that before they had kids"

and no job should ever "max" out, if you've put in years of service your wage should go up not down.
 
Mongo:

How did you get to that figure? The equation for compound growth is:

P = C (1 + r/n) nt

And since I am interested only in the percentage growth, C = 1, r = 0.015 and n = 1, t = 10...

AoD
 
Thanos said:
Oh please, it was Ford that gave the police union their biggest pay increase ever. Do some research, the right has kowtowed to the unions just as much as the left. Neither is perfect.
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I think the Fords must have some sort of unhealthy relationship with the police. Doug Ford was previously dead set against killing the requirement for paid duty police, despite his brother's no-more-gravy-train rhetoric.

Nonetheless, it was that rhetoric that got Ford elected, because it resonated with the public. I don't think anyone here really thought his platform made any financial sense though.
 
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Tulse said:
As the saying goes, it takes two to tango. Contracts are negotiated between the union and employer -- there is nothing in a contract that an employer hasn't agreed to. It is absurd for employers to complain that a collective agreement makes firing difficult when they were the ones who signed the agreement.

My spouse used to chair an academic union, and also worked as their grievance officer, and she routinely complained that when there were genuinely bad employees, the employer refused to use the means they had available for discipline and/or firing. The university would bitch about the situation, but simply wouldn't go through the mutually-agreed process for firing. It was frustrating for her, because she was required to serve as the advocate for the bad employee, even though she knew that a) they should be fired, and b) they could be fired, if only the university would follow the contract.
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This is very true. It requires meticulous documentation, which a lot of management types may not be used to doing. I suspect this even more true in academia, since academics in new management positions may not have a lot of experience with this.
 
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paraone said:
well good for you!! I'm glad your content with your lot in life but don't blame others for making more than you.
do you have 4 kids and a wife to support? are they in university? and don't throw the old argument that... "well they should have thought about that before they had kids"

and no job should ever "max" out, if you've put in years of service your wage should go up not down.
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Others can use the "but i have 4 kids....." line but we can't use the "you should've thought of that before...."
Let's use the "i have 4 kids, think about the kids" line to make others feel sorry for you.
But then again that's how we play the game isn't it. We make other feel sorry for us so we can move ahead. Actually only those bordering pathetic use such bs lines.
Last i checked the average middle class income is less then 60k/year. And you could live a good life making that salary even living downtown. And making 100K/year does not equate to middle class anymore.
 
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