Rob Ford's Toronto

[Eug]

Everybody seems quick to cut other people's wages but they sure as hell would not accept a wage cut for themselves so easily. We have a world where 5% of the population owns something like 95% of all the wealth and it's getting more unbalanced every year. Do you guys want to turn everyone in slaves who live below the poverty line?

"turn everyone into slaves who live below the poverty line". You've got to be kidding me.

Some of us just think it's incredibly stupid that TTC ticket takers who sit on their ass all day to act surly and unhelpful make $60000 (or $100000 with lots of overtime) a year, when hard labourers or Ph.D. postdoctorate fellows make less. That's just stupid.

Sure, than you'll complain about these poor bastards having to rent an apartment at TCHC. I wish every one of these cold hearted pricks were forced to work for minimum wage

$30 an hour is more than three times minimum wage, and more than a school teacher with a few years experience, and an assembly line worker. It's also more than a garbage collector, who makes in the range of $20-25. As far as I'm concerned, a TTC ticket taker should be making less than a garbage collector, which would mean the job might earn 1.5X or up to 2X minimum wage. I have no problem with a garbage collector making $20+. So quit with the fallacious arguments.

and see how much fun that would be.

Sorry, but you're barking up the wrong tree. I come from a middle class family, but at one point have lived with an unemployed parent in a complex with people on social assistance, so I know exactly what it's like.

The thing that stuck out to me at the time the most was the most vocal complainers about the situation were also the ones spending their cash on pizza, beer, and movie rentals, whereas the rest of us actually tried to save money to live within our means. (I'm not saying that most on social assistance aren't trying hard. I'm just saying that there are a few vocal ones on social assistance who complain about their situation, but aren't really doing much to change it.)

What kind of a world do you people want?

One where people value hard work and education.

 

[Justin10000]

"turn everyone into slaves who live below the poverty line". You've got to be kidding me.

Some of us just think it's incredibly stupid that TTC ticket takers who sit on their ass all day to act surly and unhelpful make $60000 (or $100000 with lots of overtime) a year, when hard labourers or Ph.D. postdoctorate fellows make less. That's just stupid.

You haved absolutely no clue what the job entails, yet you're working SO HARD to trash workers on a messageboards. Way to work hard champ! Race to the bottom!
For the record, people who go for their Masters and Ph.d do it for the money, or because they are able to. Not everyone can, nor even should be expected to go for a masters, or Ph.d.
My brother has a good post-secondary education, but choose to drive trucks instead. By your logic, should he make shit pay?

One where people value hard work and education.

When did you become so bitter? I see people like you who instead of working to improve their own lives, whine and complain about other people's better lives, and hide behind the "working hard" excuse. You talk about working hard, yet all you do is demand others should make less than you. It's pathetic. If you're such a hard worker(god I hate that conservative talking point), go out there and make more money! Bitching on a messageboard isn't going to get you anywhere. It's even worse if you actually make decent money, and still whine about others wages!

 

[bobbob911]

When did you become so bitter? I see people like you who instead of working to improve their own lives, whine and complain about other people's better lives, and hide behind the "working hard" excuse. You talk about working hard, yet all you do is demand others should make less than you. It's pathetic. If you're such a hard worker(god I hate that conservative talking point), go out there and make more money! Bitching on a messageboard isn't going to get you anywhere. It's even worse if you actually make decent money, and still whine about others wages!

I tend to agree - I just dont see $60K (as the absolute top end no less, not an entry salary) as being so crazy. Nobody is getting rich making $60K and living in the city.

Besides, think about what an actual ticket collector does - either you are locked in a tiny plexiglas cage all day, or you sit on a chair in the middle of the subway platform all day. It may not be a hard job but it is a pretty crappy one...

 

[nfitz]

Some of us just think it's incredibly stupid that TTC ticket takers who sit on their ass all day to act surly and unhelpful make $60000 (or $100000 with lots of overtime) a year, when hard labourers or Ph.D. postdoctorate fellows make less. That's just stupid.

So what then do you suggest we do with operators who earn $60,000 a year, and aren't fit to drive a vehicle anymore?

 

[Dilla]

So what then do you suggest we do with operators who earn $60,000 a year, and aren't fit to drive a vehicle anymore?

Those stations are pretty dirty...

 

[js97]

^^ Start cleaning - Today, I saw some 25 year old kid behind the glass wall...

For the Record, there is also WAY too many middle management positions with the TTC.

8 Years of Giambrone has completely ruined te TTC.


The ttc needs to be a bare bones operation - the frills of text messaging, 'trip planner' costs more than the actual value it brings. Great for marketing, not so useful to getting around. Lots of make work positions and frills that a publicly funded transportation in the business of losing money should not be dwelling into.

Tell tale sign: When you need an office tower to house your non front-line workers, A TTC Museum, a 'blue ribbon' panel. etc.

 

[Riverdale Rink Rat]

So what then do you suggest we do with operators who earn $60,000 a year, and aren't fit to drive a vehicle anymore?

Ummm... fire them? Put them on LTD? Allow them to retire early? Put them on a desk job? Retrain them to do planning/mechanical drawing/repair work/whatever else they have in the way of jobs at the TTC? Assuming we go to all auto purchase, put them in charge of checking fares by riding the system? Move them on to janitorial duty?

And that's just off the top of my head...

 

[Justin10000]

Ummm... fire them?

Because of an injury? Wow! You're heartless!

Put them on LTD?

The savings will be neglible.

Allow them to retire early?

Right... Because we live in a country where everyone can retire early!

Put them on a desk job?

Hello..? Collector's duty(Light work)

Retrain them to do planning/mechanical drawing/repair work/whatever else they have in the way of jobs at the TTC?

ha! I would love that. I thought you were all about saving money?

Assuming we go to all auto purchase, put them in charge of checking fares by riding the system?

Dude, VIVA's fare inspectosr are trained to deal with disturbances, and unruly passengers. how do you expect an injured worker to do a fare inspector's job? Especially in Toronto? Come on!

Move them on to janitorial duty?

It's not easy work, hell Janitor's are paid too low as it is.

And that's just off the top of my head...

And all them bad ideas, and idea I am sure have been thought up already.

One thing you, and Eug fail to consider. What if those on collector duty witnessed a jumper, or were attacked on the job? Again, you guys have absolutely no clue why people are behind the glass in a tiny booth, but you conclude right away, they are lazy. You do not know their story! Stop preaching as if you're some expert on transit employment.

 

[Tulse]

Some of us just think it's incredibly stupid that TTC ticket takers who sit on their ass all day to act surly and unhelpful make $60000 (or $100000 with lots of overtime) a year, when hard labourers or Ph.D. postdoctorate fellows make less.

Of course, if someone said that "hard labourers" like garbage collectors made $100,000 with overtime, people would complain as well...

 

[tkip]

Can someone show some proof that all/majority of the collectors are injured and thus why working as collectors?

I've seen many able bodied booth collectors running back and forth between breaks at stations and they look pretty healthy to me. And I would know about injuries and modified work cause I spent most of last year on modified due to a hip pain and only recently found out the cause. And let me tell you, employers don't just let you stay on modified work indefinitely.

Takes some serious reports from doctors and even then...

 

[nfitz]

Ummm... fire them? Put them on LTD? Allow them to retire early? Put them on a desk job? Retrain them to do planning/mechanical drawing/repair work/whatever else they have in the way of jobs at the TTC? Assuming we go to all auto purchase, put them in charge of checking fares by riding the system? Move them on to janitorial duty?

And that's just off the top of my head...

Other than retraining, that will still be wasted money. If you are paying them pension, you are still paying them. If you are paying them LTD, you are still paying them. Not sure where you think all these desk jobs are, other than the complaints line.

I'm not suggesting that we should be paying people hired specially for this position $60,000 ... but when it is simply the desk job they've been given ...

 

[Eug]

So what then do you suggest we do with operators who earn $60,000 a year, and aren't fit to drive a vehicle anymore?

The argument always seems to fall back to:

"Oh, we don't know what to do, so let's just keep everything status quo." Or "Well, other companies have similar issues, so it's OK that the they have them too." or "Yeah it's expensive, but it's been that way forever, and if you change it they will make less money and starve."

This is the same type of inertia that dominates so many other threads here, and it's the type of stuff that got Ford elected in the first place. IOW, to put it bluntly, I blame the left for getting Ford elected.

I say we put this on the table, instead of saying it's a basic right of all TTC workers to be employed at higher salaries for the rest of their lives. The culture of union-driven entitlement should be scrutinized. Hell, even the leftist Miller tried to do that with the garbage workers and their bankable sick days. City Council put the requirement for paid-duty policing for construction sites on the table, and guess what? This requirement has been axed.

Of course, if someone said that "hard labourers" like garbage collectors made $100,000 with overtime, people would complain as well...

Yes they would, and given that many people think that TTC ticket takers should make less than a garbage worker, you can now understand why people complain even louder when a TTC ticket taker makes that much.

 

[nfitz]

8 Years of Giambrone has completely ruined te TTC.

Why do you say things like that that are so grossly untrue? Giambrone wasn't even on the TTC commission for 8 years, let alone the chair.

 

[Riverdale Rink Rat]

One thing you, and Eug fail to consider. What if those on collector duty witnessed a jumper, or were attacked on the job? Again, you guys have absolutely no clue why people are behind the glass in a tiny booth, but you conclude right away, they are lazy. You do not know their story! Stop preaching as if you're some expert on transit employment.

The only story I need to know for the purpose of this discussion is that someone is (supposedly) making $60k to sit in a booth and collect fares, because they're no longer fit to do the job they would otherwise be doing. When I cannot do my job, I get fired. When I cannot do my job due to an injury/illness, I go on LTD. If I move to another, more menial but lighter duty job, I get less pay. Why is that so hard to fathom for a TTC employee?

As for your collection of straw men: 1. If a collector sees a jumper (assuming you mean suicide), he's not in his booth. If he sees a jumper as in fare avoider, I'd expect he'd radio the security detail to deal with the fare avoider. Either way, what's that got to do with his salary? 2. If he's attacked??? Through the booth? What's that got to do with his salary? 3. I am not concluding they are lazy, nor am I saying I'm an expert on transit. I'm saying I believe they're overpaid for a menial task.

 

[Eug]

When did you become so bitter? I see people like you who instead of working to improve their own lives, whine and complain about other people's better lives, and hide behind the "working hard" excuse. You talk about working hard, yet all you do is demand others should make less than you. It's pathetic. If you're such a hard worker(god I hate that conservative talking point), go out there and make more money! Bitching on a messageboard isn't going to get you anywhere. It's even worse if you actually make decent money, and still whine about others wages!

Heh. Damned if I do, and damned if I don't. It's good you were able to cover all your bases there.

BTW, I find it amusing that people who call this...

"If you're such a hard worker(god I hate that conservative talking point), go out there and make more money!"

...a conservative talking point.

As someone who has only ever voted left or centrist, and never for a capital C Conservative, it just seems odd. I guess I'm just not as left as you would like. So here's a hint: If you ever go to Saskatchewan (where Canadian medicare was invented) don't be surprised when a NDP-supporting farmer says that.