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Rob Ford's Toronto

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Neither make sense. The first or the reaction. Impressions gained from a location clearly in neither place. What impressions you must have of places across an ocean I can only imagine. Generalizations, both of them. These are big areas you are talking about that you clearly know nothing about.
jusbokeh said:
How does this even make sense?
1970s Scarborough and etobicoke was working class and white.

2013 it's largerly immigrant and lower middle class.

Rob ford is rich by money but he is not part of the upper class socially which is why they love him. They rejected him because he is a beer swilling and tasteless.
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jusbokeh said:
Rob ford is rich by money but he is not part of the upper class socially which is why they love him. They rejected him because he is a beer swilling and tasteless.
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Family friends include the federal Minister of Finance, and the Globe and Mail story about Doug's drug dealing days mentioned that the father moved into a social sphere with the Eatons.

The appeal of Rob Ford is such a strange mix that it defies analysis. All his personal failings, as numerous and evident as the are, have already been discounted by supporters, and any criticism of those flaws is taken as a sign that the people threatened by his rise will stoop to anything to unseat him. And the Fords seem to have crafted this clever dynamic all by themselves, it's their most honest expression, they truly do believe that they're fighters for the little guy against entrenched elites.
 
guitarchitect said:
This article is worth reading - Ford Nation is not who you think it is
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That article is almost completely BS. It claims that because there is a higher percentage of visible minorities and poor people in the wards that collectively voted for Ford, therefore visible minorities and poor people support Ford.

According to that logic, the conservative Republican senators from the deep south should be the most popular with African Americans since they represent the states with the highest percentage of African Americans.
 
Silence&Motion said:
That article is almost completely BS. It claims that because there is a higher percentage of visible minorities and poor people in the wards that collectively voted for Ford, therefore visible minorities and poor people support Ford.

According to that logic, the conservative Republican senators from the deep south should be the most popular with African Americans since they represent the states with the highest percentage of African Americans.
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That argument makes no sense whatsoever.
 
Johnny Au said:
Correlation does not imply causation.
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That, and ecological fallacy. You cannot directly deduce inferences about particular individuals within a group from characteristics of the group as a whole. In this case, we can't even claim correlation between being poor/visible minority and voting for Rob Ford. All we can claim is a correlation between living in a neighbourhood with more poor people/visible minorities and voting for Ford. It is possible that well off white people living in neighbourhoods with more poor people and visible minorities would be more likely to vote for low-tax, tough-on-crime politicians because they feel threatened or resentful.

Eug said:
That argument makes no sense whatsoever.
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Think harder.
 
You folks really don't get it, do you? People love Rob Ford because he's human, real, and doesn't hide in some secret layer of bureaucracy like David Miller etc. All classes, cultures etc love him.

Yes, we "the common folk" get it: Rob Ford is part of the elite--he could be our boss, our manager, the jerk in the corner office. But he's also hilarious good fun and like us, he isn't perfect ... he even joins us on lunch break to chat about sports, have a smoke ... We may change our minds someday but for now, he's our man, man!

Hating Rob Ford is like those luddites out there hating the Samsung Galaxy Gear: clueless people removed from reality.
 
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urbandreamer said:
You folks really don't get it, do you? People love Rob Ford because he's human, real, and doesn't hide in some secret layer of bureaucracy like David Miller etc. All classes, cultures etc love him.

Yes, we "the common folk" get it: Rob Ford is part of the elite--he could be our boss, our manager, the jerk in the corner office. But he's also hilarious good fun and like us, he isn't perfect ... he even joins us on lunch break to chat about sports, have a smoke ... We may change our minds someday but for now, he's our man, man!

Hating Rob Ford is like those luddites out there hating the Samsung Galaxy Gear: clueless people removed from reality.
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Okay he can human, real, or not hide in a secret layer of bureaucracy or whatever but is he the right person to lead this city considering the plethora of issues that currently face this city? Considering and divisive and incompetent he has shown on so many issues since he has become mayor, clearly he is not. He should step aside and go and be human and go chat about sports so that someone who can actually LEAD can step into his job.
 
Silence&Motion said:
That article is almost completely BS. It claims that because there is a higher percentage of visible minorities and poor people in the wards that collectively voted for Ford, therefore visible minorities and poor people support Ford.
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I would question the correlation-reliance here too, but the better part of the article is the one which talks about why the communities that voted for him would have done so, from an economic (rather than suburban) perspective. Did you even make it to page 2?

urbandreamer said:
Hating Rob Ford is like those luddites out there hating the Samsung Galaxy Gear: clueless people removed from reality.
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I'm pretty sure it's my firm footing in reality that makes me dislike Ford. I, for instance, realize that if you want develop a cohesive network of transit for the city, you need to consider what's good for where and develop revenue tools to pay for it. Not chant about subways, say "the private sector will take care of it", and then do literally nothing when the private sector says "um, no thanks". I also realize that a Mayor in Canada needs to build consensus and work with his/her colleagues, not work against them. I think the Mayor needs to be thoughtful and articulate and intelligent, because it's a complex city with a complex problems that need complex solutions from both sides of the political divide.

Or, you know, maybe since my vote wasn't cast base on "Could I theoretically have a beer with him?" I'm totally out of touch and just don't "get it". I should probably care a lot less about the city and vote for the guy who is "good fun"
 
urbandreamer said:
You folks really don't get it, do you? People love Rob Ford because he's human, real, and doesn't hide in some secret layer of bureaucracy like David Miller etc. All classes, cultures etc love him.

Yes, we "the common folk" get it: Rob Ford is part of the elite--he could be our boss, our manager, the jerk in the corner office. But he's also hilarious good fun and like us, he isn't perfect ... he even joins us on lunch break to chat about sports, have a smoke ... We may change our minds someday but for now, he's our man, man!

Hating Rob Ford is like those luddites out there hating the Samsung Galaxy Gear: clueless people removed from reality.
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Actually, it's you that isn't getting it. The bar to measure the competency of a Mayor, isn't set at 'jerk level.

He isn't hilarious, he's an embarrassment. Oh, and then there's that substance abuse problem.

Our man? Not mine or most Torontonians. Most have much higher standards. But, if you're drawn to lying, inarticulate, immature, drug taking, incompetent political figures...he's definitely your man. Good luck with that. You'll need it.
 
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guitarchitect said:
I would question the correlation-reliance here too, but the better part of the article is the one which talks about why the communities that voted for him would have done so, from an economic (rather than suburban) perspective. Did you even make it to page 2?
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I wondered the same thing.

I'm pretty sure it's my firm footing in reality that makes me dislike Ford. I, for instance, realize that if you want develop a cohesive network of transit for the city, you need to consider what's good for where and develop revenue tools to pay for it. Not chant about subways, say "the private sector will take care of it", and then do literally nothing when the private sector says "um, no thanks". I also realize that a Mayor in Canada needs to build consensus and work with his/her colleagues, not work against them. I think the Mayor needs to be thoughtful and articulate and intelligent, because it's a complex city with a complex problems that need complex solutions from both sides of the political divide.
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I didn't vote for Rob Ford either, but my beef with Miller was his incessant NO BRIDGE TO THE ISLAND! chant, on which he got elected. It was poorly thought out and bad for the city, but good for him, all just to win votes. Other left leaning leaders and right leaning leaders alike supported the bridge.
 
guitarchitect said:
I would question the correlation-reliance here too, but the better part of the article is the one which talks about why the communities that voted for him would have done so, from an economic (rather than suburban) perspective. Did you even make it to page 2?
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I am quite familiar with that article. In fact, I was informed by Toronto Life that the letter I wrote in response will be published in the next issue (voicing the same criticism of ecological fallacy). You can come up with dozens of plausible explanations for why a particular type of person would or would not vote for Ford. But a plausible explanation is not a correct explanation.

The idea that poor people are more likely than wealthy people to vote for low taxes flies in the face of most political scientific research. Preville offers a plausible explanation for why this might be the case for the 2010 mayoral election. However, before I believe him, I'd first like to see a shred of valid evidence. Quotes from Ford strategists and Giorgio Mammoliti and misinterpreted statistical data don't count as valid evidence. Of course Ford and his cronies would like to believe that their supporters are the downtrodden, and their detractors are the elites. But I'm not buying it - at least not until I see actual evidence.
 
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