News   Jul 12, 2024
 1.5K     0 
News   Jul 12, 2024
 1.2K     1 
News   Jul 12, 2024
 436     0 

Rob Ford's Toronto

Status
Not open for further replies.
Wow, I leave for the weekend and miss out on the whole HaveLove debacle. Kinda glad though, I'm sure I would have gotten my hands dirty and it would have been a waste of time. Can't figure out if he's better or worse than evvabeing... at least he is/was actually engaging in some form of discourse.
 
Wow, I leave for the weekend and miss out on the whole HaveLove debacle. Kinda glad though, I'm sure I would have gotten my hands dirty and it would have been a waste of time. Can't figure out if he's better or worse than evvabeing... at least he is/was actually engaging in some form of discourse.

He was definitely a popular diversion on a slow news week. I'm personally looking forward to IFA coverage since Ford news should still be slow for a little bit.
 
Rob Ford is polling at 42% in last weeks recent approval rating.

he has maintained a solid base of 40%+ through all of this.

if no video surfaces by Jan or February, the electorate will not be pleased and Rob will bury his competition.

lets hope something comes up with these court documents.

IMO the 40% is due to a lack of alternatives and lowered expectations. Once we have a viable conservative-centrist opponent, I'd expect it to drop back to its base level of around 30%.

As for the video, I personally think that the electorate has already forgotten about the issue. Any video surfacing will probably elict a weak reaction- the damage has already been done and there's nothing completely new or shocking anymore. Now, if the video allegations are unfounded or if Ford's criminal connections run deeper...
 
Last edited:
...it's curious that she would take over a month off running through the expected public release of the Project Traveller warrants in two weeks from now.

She's not backing away from the story entirely. From her twitter feed. "While Daniel holds down the fort, I'm taking some time off. My byline returns mid-October."

Key words for me are "some" and "Byline returns." Doolittle will still be involved and it wouldn't be a bit surprising if she's taking time off from writing to focus more on the warrants and how they connect to the info, people and existing connections.

There is nothing suspicious about the timing of Rider's leave. The Massey Fellowship dates are take 'em or leave 'em, and a journalist won't leave 'em.
 
Wow, I leave for the weekend and miss out on the whole HaveLove debacle. Kinda glad though, I'm sure I would have gotten my hands dirty and it would have been a waste of time. Can't figure out if he's better or worse than evvabeing... at least he is/was actually engaging in some form of discourse.

Probably worse (or "better" for being "worse") due to the manner in which I tripwired his philistinism--which, on a level of jaw-dropping boneheaded obliviousness, is up there w/Rob Ford's Hackland testimony. And of course, he excuses it all as "thinking for himself"--even if, within a UT context, it's a little like appearing in Al Jolson blackface at a NAACP meeting.

Though, yeah--"group-think" vs "thinking for oneself". A nice way of weaseling out of *any* ignorant insensitivity. Fail a class? Teacher was forcing "group-think" and punishing anyone "thinking for themselves". Y'know, a sort of "school sucks, man" militant loutism being practiced here.

Indeed, the Fords' own conduct and attitude has been the apotheosis of such loutism--like they go by the credo of Alice Cooper and Pink Floyd and don't need no education and want to blow the school to pieces. They're the Deltas vs Dean Wormer. They're the barrios of Rio vs the beach/business/governmental zones.

The rise of Western democracy was predicated upon the freedom to know (i.e. mass ignorance is an emblem of a backward society). The fall of Western democracy is predicated upon the freedom to *not* know (i.e. knowledge is for pointy-heads).

A good mayoral candidate for Scarborough should be like a good, inspiring teacher. Ford's more like a teacher that says "Hey kids! Want some candy?" I got lots of it!"
 
These two things are not mutually exclusive. Once police hand evidence that they collected over to the Crown (who then disclose it to the defence), why would the police retain a copy?

Police own chain of custody for evidence - once they have something they keep it. It's not like crown attorneys have evidence lockers or anything.

The issue here is that Kinsella believes the cops have the recording, which he appears to have inferred based on what the Siad's counsel said. At least one media outlet is convinced that the police don't have the recording. One of these positions will turn out to be wrong.
 
Probably worse (or "better" for being "worse") due to the manner in which I tripwired his philistinism--which, on a level of jaw-dropping boneheaded obliviousness, is up there w/Rob Ford's Hackland testimony. And of course, he excuses it all as "thinking for himself"--even if, within a UT context, it's a little like appearing in Al Jolson blackface at a NAACP meeting.

I'm not really sure that a difference of opinion in architecture is even remotely similar to appearing in blackface at a NAACP meeting.
 
Probably worse (or "better" for being "worse") due to the manner in which I tripwired his philistinism--which, on a level of jaw-dropping boneheaded obliviousness, is up there w/Rob Ford's Hackland testimony. And of course, he excuses it all as "thinking for himself"--even if, within a UT context, it's a little like appearing in Al Jolson blackface at a NAACP meeting.

Though, yeah--"group-think" vs "thinking for oneself". A nice way of weaseling out of *any* ignorant insensitivity. Fail a class? Teacher was forcing "group-think" and punishing anyone "thinking for themselves". Y'know, a sort of "school sucks, man" militant loutism being practiced here.

Indeed, the Fords' own conduct and attitude has been the apotheosis of such loutism--like they go by the credo of Alice Cooper and Pink Floyd and don't need no education and want to blow the school to pieces. They're the Deltas vs Dean Wormer. They're the barrios of Rio vs the beach/business/governmental zones.

The rise of Western democracy was predicated upon the freedom to know (i.e. mass ignorance is an emblem of a backward society). The fall of Western democracy is predicated upon the freedom to *not* know (i.e. knowledge is for pointy-heads).

A good mayoral candidate for Scarborough should be like a good, inspiring teacher. Ford's more like a teacher that says "Hey kids! Want some candy?" I got lots of it!"

Sorry, I have to offer a dissenting opinion here. If I understand correctly, you are slamming HaveLove for his architectural insensitivity and comparing it to racism and domestic abuse. I think this is a little over the top. These are buildings, not human beings. I agree the EIFS-covered version of the building you posted looks terrible compared to the original. However, as people pointed out in the EIFS thread, aesthetic sensibilities change with time and location. What was considered beautiful yesterday may be hideous today. What seems sophisticated and classic to North Americans may be ugly and tasteless to Asians.

It's one thing to say that EIFS is cheap and does not weather well -- those are objective, falsifiable facts. It's quite another to say that EIFS is unequivocally ugly, vulgar, tasteless, etc. Those are all matters of opinion, to a certain extent. (Sure, there are some scientific principles behind aesthetics, like symmetry and the golden ratio, but I doubt we'll ever be able to say something is unequivocally beautiful or ugly for all cultures, time periods and locations.) It's almost like saying that skinny jeans are unequivocally awesome/hideous. Just wait another 5-10 years and the fashion pendulum will swing the other way.

Yes, Douglas Adams once said, "all opinions are not equal". I just don't happen to believe it applies (very much) to aesthetics and I don't agree with trashing a guy because he doesn't share the same urban architectural sensibility as most on this board. I don't like mullets, but I also don't go around condemning people who choose to wear them.

Honestly, the reaction does smack of elitism IMO. "My aesthetic sensibility is morally and intellectually superior to yours!" This is exactly the flip side to Ford's ignorant populism which is driving a wedge in our city. As someone said in the EIFS thread, the suburbs are a "lost cause" anyway. Well, people who grew up in the suburbs would've been influenced by the architecture they grew up with, and maybe they would find it hard to identify with people who grew up in the city with beautiful heritage architecture.

Maybe he was trolling to elicit a reaction, or maybe, just maybe, he personally finds the new look of the building to be superior. I think he's entitled to his opinion, regardless of whether I or anyone else strongly disagrees with it.

Where I'm coming from: I don't support Ford (can't stand him, actually) and I've leaned left my whole life. Grew up in Scarborough and never lived in the city proper. Life-long transit user.
 
Last edited:
I rather have evvabeing than HateLove.

I rather have someone ignorant of spelling/grammar/style than one ignorant of facts and evidence.

you guys really think they're different people? Not a little bit curious that they each pursued thread derailment (albeit using different MOs)?
 
Honestly, the reaction does smack of elitism IMO. "My aesthetic sensibility is morally and intellectually superior to yours!" This is exactly the flip side to Ford's ignorant populism which is driving a wedge in our city. As someone said in the EIFS thread, the suburbs are a "lost cause" anyway. Well, people who grew up in the suburbs would've been influenced by the architecture they grew up with, and maybe they would find it hard to identify with people who grew up in the city with beautiful heritage architecture.

Actually, I wouldn't broad-brush the suburbs quite that way--in fact, all too often these days it's a matter of people who grew up in the suburbs or adopted them as their home being profoundly *disengaged* from their architectural/historical environments; or at least, they view it as a history-free, story-free, value-free tabula rasa.*** And I'm speaking from a POV that recognizes how today's latent ledger of historicity/heritage/cherishability/whatever is actually encompassing a great deal of this suburban Scarborough fabric--and, in fact, with that in mind, as per the thread the "lost cause" has more to with all too many present-day suburbanites being their own worst enemy. Thus the matter of "architecture they grew up with" might have less to do w/50s/60s/70s bungalows, than with the 90s/noughts teardowns and disfigurements that constitute today's vulgarized version of "keeping up with the Joneses". And I'm sorry--except on novelty/ironic/camp grounds, I *cannot* see that sort of fare benefiting from heritage-esque fashion swings; largely because the dispensible "fashion swing" mentality behind it is so contrary to what's fueled "future heritage" in the past--in fact, as I see it, it was somewhere around the 80s/90s juncture that a "Big Sort" terminal cleavage in architectural taste and attitude took place, perhaps related to the breakdown of the "mass middle" concept in other media, the end of the days when daily newspapers, newsweeklies, the Big 3 networks, mainstream Top 40 etc were rite-of-passage cultural fulcrums. One result being that the notion of "heritage sensitivity" relative to something like postwar Scarborough has tended to be cubbyholed as the pursuit/fantasy of weirdo hipster crackpots (cf. the Portlandia episode of the Simpsons). Perhaps there's also an art-world corollary: we went from an era defined by "Pop" a la Warhol to one defined by "Mass" a la Kinkade.

Being suburban and in his mid-20s, it's conceivable that HaveLove has only known one side (and, unfortunately, the "low" side) of that divide.

Then, esp. re the demographic evolution of Scarborough in recent decades, there's the cultural-divide matter to consider, as per the quote
What seems sophisticated and classic to North Americans may be ugly and tasteless to Asians.
It may be no coincidence that a lot of this "value-free" attitude is held by "new Canadians", a lot of whom came here exactly in pursuit of a tabula rasa new start that they couldn't pursue in their homelands; or else, simply arriving with a looser native-culture attitude t/w "heritage" and "context" (whose racially-charged controversiality in Canada dates back at least to Vancouver's "monster home" crisis of the 1980s--and perhaps, in a milder form, to the postwar Italo-Portuguese-izing of many of Toronto's older neighbourhoods)
It's certainly worth noting that some of UT's most insufferably vehement critics of the persistence of Toronto's humble lowrise Victoriana along streets like Yonge appear to be/have been of Asiatic background. (And much like the present-day "weirdo Simpsons Portlandia hipster" cubbyhole re suburban gentrifiers, to them campaigns on behalf of, say, Beijing's hutongs might seem a little too much of a Euro-American "Lonely Planet" elite conceit for their own good.)


***Which, subliminally, may explain why their relationship to their own environments all too often seems pathological, and in a manner Rob Ford makes hay out of. When you choose to live a basically utilitarian existence within such an apparently "story-free" environment, and you have no impulse, or nobody to spark an impulse to seek such stories, you're living a life of entropic poverty. A tabula rasa Scarberia is an environment of misery, not joy. Pathology, not passion.
 
Last edited:
@adma:

I am a Canadian (born and raised) of Asian descent, as it happens (*). I did not write this -- "What seems sophisticated and classic to North Americans may be ugly and tasteless to Asians" -- as a reflection of my own opinion, but only as an allusion to this quote from the EIFS thread: "Also, in East Asia exposed brick is considered trashy and cheap."

(*) Not that it should be relevant at all, except for the fact that you highlighted that quote, and now I feel the need to disclose my bias (or lack thereof).

My point was that there can be no absolute, timeless, culture-free standard of aesthetics, which is probably obvious to everyone, not that all opinions are equal or that I believe in a "value-free" existence. If someone has bad taste (in your opinion or mine), personally I would say that it might be a reflection of the time, place and culture they grew up in, as opposed to making it a harsh judgement on his or her character, as you seem to have done.

You are correct that recent immigrants (and subsequent generations) will likely not place the same value on history and context as those whose families have been here for many generations.

You are also correct that the controversy over heritage is racially charged. I recall a Toronto Star article from a few years back about how modern accessibility laws (for the mobility-impaired) were forcing certain heritage buildings to be closed to the public (because it wasn't cost effective or feasible to bring them up to code.) The comments section quickly degenerated into a rant by one reader who claimed that the city was pandering to immigrants who had no sense of history, and that it was a shame that high-achieving Torontonians of British descent were content to be bankers rather than taking an active role in shaping the city. Funnily enough, the story had absolutely nothing to do with immigrants at all, but someone chose to make it all about how Torontonians of British descent weren't pulling their weight, and immigrants were ruining everything.

I do think that values are important, but I also think that it's important to pick your battles. Not everyone is going to care as much about architecture and aesthetics as many of the people on urbantoronto. You say that people choose to live a utilitarian existence in a story-free environment; perhaps it is because they have other priorities in life (family, work, health, etc.) Maybe they are focused on writing their own stories, with their own families, friends and neighbours in the present. Maybe they are focused on just making ends meet.

It may not be practical for everyone to live in a storied neighbourhood in the heart of the city, especially new immigrants. Maybe they can't afford to live there, maybe it's too far from work, and maybe they won't fit in there (e.g. your examples of how certain groups of immigrants changed their neighbourhoods/cities in ways that many disapprove of.) I agree that Scarborough (for the most part) is not exactly the most beautiful part of the GTA; however, architecture is far down the list of things that need to be fixed, in my opinion (I grew up in a "high-risk" area of Scarborough.)

You obviously place a great deal of value on architecture, aesthetics and history. While I genuinely admire your passion (obviously all of those things are important to the city), I can't quite buy into the narrative that a lack of beautiful architecture and history is an impoverished existence. People who are living in real poverty (which I'd wager most of us are lucky to have never experienced) would be insulted by that idea.
 
Last edited:
Status
Not open for further replies.

Back
Top