Rob Ford's Toronto

[LowPolygon]

What, did Ford kill someone now?

But to answer your question...no. Not sure how you got that from my post.

That wasn't my point. I was applying the same hyperbolic comparison nftz used to another argument.

Um, why? Nftz said that anyone who supports a homophobic politician is themselves a homophobe. So it doesn't really matter whether the politician is from Canada or not. Obama is as good a comparison as any.

i don't know why anyone engages with this guy. you're never going to get anywhere with him. he's like the dog that can't stop chasing after the ball. he'll never stop unless you stop.

also, i guarantee you that the eyeball glazing, sleep inducing, hair-splitting, entirely irrelevant 'arguments' that he is attempting to gin up, are driving people off the thread in droves.

 

[jje1000]

i don't know why anyone engages with this guy. you're never going to get anywhere with him. he's like the dog that can't stop chasing after the ball. he'll never stop unless you stop.

also, i guarantee you that the eyeball glazing, sleep inducing, hair-splitting, entirely irrelevant 'arguments' that he is attempting to gin up, are driving people off the thread in droves.

He made it clear that he supported Ford despite knowing about all his character flaws, which he accepted and actually argued in favour of. At that point, I knew that it would be a pointless endeavor to change his mind as he's already made up his mind. You don't try to change people like that, you simply try to rebutt the things he says in order to prevent his beliefs from spreading.

Ford is really good at one thing: making lies stick. Maybe because he actually believes what he says or perhaps he's secretly an evil genius but he continues to repeat lies that favour him and eventually it becomes accepted as fact.

The fact is that Ford's opposition has been scattered and ineffective. What needs to be done is to firmly dispell the lies he spreads- "A good offense is the best defense," instead of pointlessly going around saying that people supporting Ford are bigots, looking solely at his character flaws, etc. This is why people like nfitz make me occasionaly roll my eyes- what he says won't get Ford defeated as Ford's platform is not about homophobia, it's about making people feel richer even if they're going to be hurt over the long-term.

Literally at this point, anything that Ford says has been printed out in mainstream media loud and clear, with the truth quietly stated in the actual article. It's literally that people see what Ford says first, and the truth afterwards. And we know that this doesn't work, as CowboyLogic pointed out that people don't have the time/are mostly too lazy to go over the news. To change people's minds these days, you will literally need to state the truth right beside Ford's statements, simply and loudly (KISS). And the main area to battle him on is in finance and budgets, not Pride or bike lanes- you need to think like Ford's voters in order to change their minds. Defeating Ford is going to be a hard task if people don't step up to the plate, or simply give up and go elsewhere.

I see this task as crucial, as if Ford wins and manages to get his slate of councillors in, this means that Ford's means of governing and campaigning has become part of the effective means of winning and could be replicated across the province and the country, as already seen in BC. I don't want Canada to become like the US.

Section 129 Subsections 4 through 8 of the link you posted describe exactly how this occurs. Subsection 8 kind of defeats the purpose of this whole petition process if I am reading it correctly (emphasis mine):
"(8) Once an order of the Board is in force, the order is deemed to be a by-law of the City and may be amended or repealed by the City by by-law described in section 128."

Speaking of the Taxpayer Coalition to jerry-rig the system, I suppose that if it actually went through (as Ford has proven that anything is possible), it could be defeated by a counter petition arguing aganst it.

 

[MetroMan]

And we interrupt this debate to report that the crack case is about to get hot again. The warrant to search the home of the alleged murderer of Anthony Smith has been unsealed and it reveals that when arrested, the suspect did not have a cell phone on him. The warrant was requested to "recover a black iPhone that was necessary to tie him to the murder". Strap yourselves in folks, Rob Ford is going to have a nice welcoming committee when he returns from his vacation out west.

 

[nfitz]

This is why people like nfitz make me occasionaly roll my eyes- what he says won't get Ford defeated as Ford's platform is not about homophobia

Of course it won't. Why should I post stuff to get him defeated? If that was my goal, I'm posting in the wrong place, he hardly seems to have much support here to begin with.

At the same time, it would be morally wrong of me ... or anyone in fact ... to not speak up when people come here and start making bizarre claims denying his well documented bigotry.

Besides ... it's quite clear that the political establishment in Toronto isn't going to tolerate him being the Tory candidate this time round. If that doesn't kill his re-election, the release of the video will.

 

[OSS 117]

Good riddance then.

If you can't understand why people vote for Ford or why he holds such appeal, then you're part of the reason he got elected.

The people who voted for Ford are either ignorant or mean. There are no other options.

 

[freshcutgrass]

At the same time, it would be morally wrong of me ... or anyone in fact ... to not speak up when people come here and start making bizarre claims denying his well documented bigotry.

The conservative-minded apologetics who defend Ford's behaviour, do so for one reason....because they believe the policies he represents are worth it.

They rationalize things like outright bigotry or lying, or having the public speaking ability of a 4th grader as him just coming by it honestly...as in he is just too stupid to realize what he says or does is wrong....like how a retard can't really be convicted of a crime. This is Rob Ford's defence on everything.

Well, I can understand forgiving a character flaw of a politician if their policies are so great, one outweighs the other.

Rob Ford's character flaws???

Man, he better have some game-changing fantastic policies (and the cure for cancer) to forgive his flaws.

Oh but wait....HE DOESN'T

Which is why there is no excuse for being a Rob Ford supporter that makes any sense.

 

[Tewder]

Which is why there is no excuse for being a Rob Ford supporter that makes any sense.

... and yet Cowboylogic has given many that do, whether anybody here cares to acknowledge them or not. In other words, rather than bashing him and censuring him we would do well to listen to him and understand him because he is expressing very openly here (in a forum unfriendly to his perspective) what the masses are feeling and thinking. I understand the frustration we are feeling but I for one appreciate a different perspective in this thread. It is an opportunity for informed debate. Let's not lose sight of that!

Ford is riding a pendulum of public sentiment that is just as much a reaction against the David Miller era (perceptions of elitism, government corruption and wastefulness etc) than it is an endorsement of Ford's crazy platform... and isn't this typically how Canadians in general react to politics and elections? We are a largely privileged, apathetic, and apolitical society that for all our education is easily swayed by perception rather than truth... and nobody understands this better than Rob Ford.

 

[bobbob911]

And we interrupt this debate to report that the crack case is about to get hot again. The warrant to search the home of the alleged murderer of Anthony Smith has been unsealed and it reveals that when arrested, the suspect did not have a cell phone on him. The warrant was requested to "recover a black iPhone that was necessary to tie him to the murder". Strap yourselves in folks, Rob Ford is going to have a nice welcoming committee when he returns from his vacation out west.

Just curious - does that definitively mean they recovered said iPhone?

 

[LowPolygon]

... and yet Cowboylogic has given many that do, whether anybody here cares to acknowledge them or not. In other words, rather than bashing him and censuring him we would do well to listen to him and understand him because he is expressing very openly here (in a forum unfriendly to his perspective) what the masses are feeling and thinking. I understand the frustration we are feeling but I for one appreciate a different perspective in this thread. It is an opportunity for informed debate. Let's not lose sight of that!

oh man, prep the soap box. cowboylogic AKA "the voice of the (stupid) people, will soon arrive to "channel" the thoughts of "the average joe", on behalf of some fat rich kid with a drug problem. can't wait.

in the meantime, here on planet earth

metroman:

"And we interrupt this debate to report that the crack case is about to get hot again. The warrant to search the home of the alleged murderer of Anthony Smith has been unsealed and it reveals that when arrested, the suspect did not have a cell phone on him. The warrant was requested to "recover a black iPhone that was necessary to tie him to the murder". Strap yourselves in folks, Rob Ford is going to have a nice welcoming committee when he returns from his vacation out west."

 

[James_D]

I don't think that's her. For one thing, Elena Johnson Basso is wheeling a bike in those pictures, while @ejb__ is a vociferous bike hater. Then there's the fact of living in Etobicoke vs @ejb__ tweeting mostly about Ward 27 and KWT.

@ejb__ had a previous Twitter account named @ejbejbejb, until it was hacked (it now posts pretty much the opposite of what @ejb__ does). In it, I recall her posting one or two responses to others in Polish. Could be someone in Ford's extended in-law family, or ... just a hateful crank, I guess.

I'm pretty sure EJB is Josie Erent -- a well-known crank, member of Neil Flagg's I hate The War On Rob Ford group. I believe Josh Matlow does or did have a restraining order against her.

Whatever happened to the slushie thrower and her high-profile lawyer?

 

[mrtinfoilsocket]

Just curious - does that definitively mean they recovered said iPhone?

I believe that it does. The G&M article states:

"The list of items seized from Mr. Mohamed shows that police found and confiscated three cellphones in addition to the one they were looking for: a black Samsung, a black BlackBerry, a white iPhone with a broken screen."

 

[freshcutgrass]

... and yet Cowboylogic has given many that do, whether anybody here cares to acknowledge them or not.

Such as?

It is an opportunity for informed debate.

But informed debates with Rob Ford supporters would require them to be somewhat informed would it not? And they learn from the master of the uninformed.
Nobody is less informed than Rob Ford himself. One just needs to listen to him speak on any subject to see how stunningly dumb he is on the subject he is speaking about. Being uninformed is the hallmark of Rob Ford, so why would a Ford supporter be any different?

So please point that finger somewhere else when blaming someone for the lack of informed debate.

 

[dforthandbview]

They may have the cell they were looking for but that doesn't necessarily mean we are going to see it's contents any time soon. Maybe even never. What if there are more guilty pleas in court? No trial = no evidence publicly disclosed, right?

 

[TheTigerMaster]

And we interrupt this debate to report that the crack case is about to get hot again. The warrant to search the home of the alleged murderer of Anthony Smith has been unsealed and it reveals that when arrested, the suspect did not have a cell phone on him. The warrant was requested to "recover a black iPhone that was necessary to tie him to the murder". Strap yourselves in folks, Rob Ford is going to have a nice welcoming committee when he returns from his vacation out west.

So we have any reason to believe the man behind the murder of Anthony Smith was in possession of the phone used to record the video at the time? Seems like a stretch to me.

And do we know if the device was successfully recovered in the raid?

 

[James_D]

So apparently Massoudi is accompanying robbie on his family vacation? That seems normal.