Rob Ford's Toronto

[James_D]

So apparently Massoudi is accompanying robbie on his family vacation? That seems normal.

 

[allabootmatt]

I have a feeling something's fishy here.

 

[Tewder]

Nobody is less informed than Rob Ford himself. One just needs to listen to him speak on any subject to see how stunningly dumb he is on the subject he is speaking about. Being uninformed is the hallmark of Rob Ford, so why would a Ford supporter be any different?

Agreed, but so what? Most Canadians are uninformed. Most Canadians care more about Honey Boo Boo or the hockey score than the relative merits of LRT vs subway. Even your average well-intentioned, hard working/tax paying, educated Joe-hoser is likely only skimming the media surface for political insight. These are the times we live in, and they favour Rob Ford's brand of empty sloganeering, which is proving unbelievably effective. In this sense bashing Ford supporters only widens the chasm between the uninformed (yet politically powerful) masses and the informed minority, strengthening Rob Ford's position... and isn't this exactly what we've been witnessing with Rob Ford's popularity growing in the face of the Toronto Star's dogged onslaught against him?

So please point that finger somewhere else when blaming someone for the lack of informed debate.

Dismissing Rob Ford voters as evil or racist is not an informed perspective, in any way.

 

[RC8]

How this city can continue to support him is not only incredibly frustrating but one of the saddest realizations I've had as a Torontonian: the city I love is populated by people either too naïve or too self centred to allow it to grow into the great city I've always hoped and believed it would become. If Ford is re-elected, I'll wish Toronto no harm, but I won't be a part of this. The world is a big place.

This and every other poorly defined government (see amalgamation), I'm afraid.

Thing is, progressive people in Toronto and the GTA were wilfully blind to the damage that advocating for tolerance of everything and everyone would do to this town.

When I first moved here I was shocked at the amount of religious and pseudo-religious (see conservative policies) nonsense thrown around - especially by ethnic suburbanites and uneducated white folk. But what shocked me the most was that progressive people were thoroughly accepting of their behaviour!

There have been decades of tolerance to absurd illogical worldviews here, and now that those people have got hold of power you are going to have a very hard time convincing them that some opinions are more valuable than others because they are better informed.

Personally I would rather move to the developing world than be stuck in a place like Brampton/Markham/most of Etobicoke where I have to put up with the barbaric views of a bunch of people I am not allowed to criticise.

 

[JWBF]

I don't want Canada to become like the US.

It may be to late already, Harper is a Republican, in fact, most of the Conservative party are republicans.

Speaking of the Taxpayer Coalition to jerry-rig the system, I suppose that if it actually went through (as Ford has proven that anything is possible), it could be defeated by a counter petition arguing aganst it.

I wonder how much money the Fords threw at them to become an entity, and coincidently in 2010.

 

[freshcutgrass]

Agreed, but so what? Most Canadians are uninformed. Most Canadians care more about Honey Boo Boo or the hockey score than the relative merits of LRT vs subway. Even your average well-intentioned, hard working/tax paying, educated Joe-hoser is likely only skimming the media surface for political insight. These are the times we live in, and they favour Rob Ford's brand of empty sloganeering, which is proving unbelievably effective. In this sense bashing Ford supporters only widens the chasm between the uninformed (yet politically powerful) masses and the informed minority, strengthening Rob Ford's position... and isn't this exactly what we've been witnessing with Rob Ford's popularity growing in the face of the Toronto Star's dogged onslaught against him?

First of all...I don't buy it. The general public didn't just all of a sudden lose massive amounts of IQ points since Miller left office, and would have been re-elected had he run again (according to polls) and was far more popular than Ford during his entire two term tenure. And I certainly don't believe a single garbage strike is to blame.

Secondly, if you have a point to make, I'm not quite sure what it is...are we supposed to stay quiet?

Tewder...you just sound like another Ford apologetic to me. In fact, it's more like a Ford apologetic...apologetic, which may be even sadder.

 

[jje1000]

It may be to late already, Harper is a Republican, in fact, most of the Conservative party are republicans.

Yes, but they're at least not as extreme as the Tea Party. At least Harper is willing to compromise on some issues. Ford and his style of politics is all about pettiness and bunkering down, even when faced with the facts- to them, everyone else is wrong. Moreso, we're already seeing the pendulum beginning to swing back as people are increasingly tired of the Conservative's mismanagement. I doubt that we'll see another Conservative majority in the next election.

I wonder how much money the Fords threw at them to become an entity, and coincidentally in 2010.

Enough for them to make a splash and turn enough heads (holding roundtable discussions, McGuire seemingly having enough time/money to devote most of his to the group, etc.) Though McGuire may not be officially affiliated with Ford, Ford wouldn't hesitate to support him, IMO.

So apparently Massoudi is accompanying robbie on his family vacation? That seems normal.

Having a publicist accompanying you tends to be a good thing when you're Ford.

 

[TheTigerMaster]

This and every other poorly defined government (see amalgamation), I'm afraid.

Thing is, progressive people in Toronto and the GTA were wilfully blind to the damage that advocating for tolerance of everything and everyone would do to this town.

When I first moved here I was shocked at the amount of religious and pseudo-religious (see conservative policies) nonsense thrown around - especially by ethnic suburbanites and uneducated white folk. But what shocked me the most was that progressive people were thoroughly accepting of their behaviour!

There have been decades of tolerance to absurd illogical worldviews here, and now that those people have got hold of power you are going to have a very hard time convincing them that some opinions are more valuable than others because they are better informed.

Personally I would rather move to the developing world than be stuck in a place like Brampton/Markham/most of Etobicoke where I have to put up with the barbaric views of a bunch of people I am not allowed to criticise.

A huge part of the problem is how complacent the media is in this town (with the exception of the newspapers [not the Sun]). The TV and radio news networks will report practically anything Ford says as an unchallenged fact. An example is how the media loves to play soundbites of Ford raving about how he's saved Toronto billions of dollars. After they play the soundbite, do they challenge the mayor at all and point out how that couldn't be further from the truth? Of course they don't. They move on to the next story. Now to the average Joe, who just came home from a long day of work and is watching the news, Ford saving Toronto billions of dollars is an undeniable fact. And I can't blame an average guy for coming to that conclusion. We can't expect everyone to go online to search the details of the municipal budget to see that Ford is completely lying when he says he's saved us billions of dollars. That's the responsibility of the news media, and it's something that they've completely failed at.

 

[dforthandbview]

We need someone like Helen Thomas asking questions. RIP.

 

[MetroMan]

A huge part of the problem is how complacent the media is in this town (with the exception of the newspapers [not the Sun]). The TV and radio news networks will report practically anything Ford says as an unchallenged fact. An example is how the media loves to play soundbites of Ford raving about how he's saved Toronto billions of dollars. After they play the soundbite, do they challenge the mayor at all and point out how that couldn't be further from the truth? Of course they don't. They move on to the next story. Now to the average Joe, who just came home from a long day of work and is watching the news, Ford saving Toronto billions of dollars is an undeniable fact. And I can't blame an average guy for coming to that conclusion. We can't expect everyone to go online to search the details of the municipal budget to see that Ford is completely lying when he says he's saved us billions of dollars. That's the responsibility of the news media, and it's something that they've completely failed at.

I thoroughly agree. The media is terrible. The sooner traditional media dies and decentralized journalism makes it to the forefront, the better. There are many bloggers in Toronto writing excellent stories keeping the Mayor in check but they don't get enough attention. Matt Elliot has done this city great service by being the most visible fact checker of this Mayor's record. We need more like him, getting even more exposure.

 

[JWBF]

Yes, but they're at least not as extreme as the Tea Party. At least Harper is willing to compromise on some issues. Ford and his style of politics is all about pettiness and bunkering down, even when faced with the facts- to them, everyone else is wrong. Moreso, we're already seeing the pendulum beginning to swing back as people are increasingly tired of the Conservative's mismanagement. I doubt that we'll see another Conservative majority in the next election.

Maybe not as extreme since Harper won the majority. The same tools are still being used by both levels of government, mayoral and federal, to one extent or another.

The whole senate scandal is a good example of this, FUD/obfuscation as tools are par for the course.

 

[MetroMan]

Regarding the recovered iPhone, it may or may not be "the iPhone" that we all want to see but if you connect the dots, they're sure making up a very clear picture:

Anthony Smith was in that house with Rob Ford as he smoked crack so he was in a position to film the video. It was likely the phone of one of the men in that picture used to to take it. Anthony Smith was in the picture. The Star and Gawker were shown the video on an iPhone by Somali men after Anthony Smith was killed. Two somali men were arrested and charged in the killing of Anthony Smith. The iPhone was a key piece of evidence. Gawker's timeline shows the video going missing after the men were arrested in Fort McMurray.

These connections could all be coincidences but that many pieces falling together and being unrelated is just giving this case too much benefit of the doubt. I'm looking forward to this trial. It should take place in the next couple of months from what I understand.

 

[toraerach]

Perhaps looking at Rob Ford as just another politician is part of the problem for those of us trying to figure out Ford Nation. Lately, I've been thinking that Ford's celebrity is just as - if not more - important than his ideology or competence as an elected official. Approached from this perspective, Ford Nation is just another overly-invested fandom whose devotion to their celebrity becomes an integrated part of their identity leading to normally outrageous behaviour and a willingness to excuse almost anything. It's akin to, say, those Chris Brown fans that have stuck by him even though there's no doubt that he's an abusive pig, or (to take it further) to those "Beliebers" who started cutting themselves for their star a while back.

And this goes for many of his detractors as well. He's tabloid fodder with every personal detail splashed out on the front page like some misbehaving starlet - a huge change from the usual hands-off approach the media takes to politicians' personal lives in this country. Scorning the man has become a form of recreation for a good chunk of the city, and the question often asked in these circles ("Who the hell votes for this guy?!") mirrors the whole "There are people who actually like Nickleback?!" thing - both in incredulous tone and in the not-so-subtle condemnation of everything the fan base stands for.

This is the only way I've been able to make sense of the Ford phenomenon.

 

[TheTigerMaster]

The man is like a god. I've seen people faces turn red with anger if you dare to say anything unflattering about Ford. It's bizarre.

 

[mrtinfoilsocket]

The man is like a god. I've seen people faces turn red with anger if you dare to say anything unflattering about Ford. It's bizarre.

My biggest problem with Ford Nation is their unquestioning, unwavering support and belief for virtually everything he says or does. You can watch people twist themselves into knots and accept bewildering leaps of logic in order to do that. I'm of the opinion that whenever you see that you're looking at people who either lack critical thinking ability or are exceptionally dishonest with themselves in regards to what their beliefs are. It's just not possible that "your guy" can ALWAYS be right.

I find myself on the left side of the political spectrum and I'm aware I can be somewhat partisan at times. I generally dislike Stephen Harper and had a lot of respect for Jack Layton, Andrea Horvath and Dalton McGuinty for example. But here's the thing... if I'm being reflective I'm perfectly willing to acknowledge that Harper has implemented some policies I agree with, Jack Layton was over the top to the point of being obnoxious occasionally, some of Andreas actions during the budget debate really rubbed me the wrong way and Mcgunty's gas plant scandal was (to me) almost completely indefensible. That's frankly just the shades of grey that exist in the real world.

You'll never get those kinds of admissions from the really serious Ford Nation supporters (which seem to be most of them) - and that's why (to them) his lies and buffoonery are irrelevant and the crack scandal is part of some vast left wing conspiracy created by the Toronto Star.