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Rob Ford's Toronto

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TheTigerMaster said:
You have to remember that the religious demographics were very different 10 years ago. Catholicism likely made up 40%+ of the population, and the no religion demographic was a blip on the radar. Now thing's have changed dramatically. Less than 1/3 of Ontarians are Catholic, and the 'no religion' group has surged to about 25%. By time the next election rolls around, no religion will be the largest religious group in the province, and Catholicism will have shifted town to 2nd place.

So his pandering made sense 10 years ago. He was trying to attract the 40% of people who were Catholics while also catering to the remaining 45% - 50% of people who were part of a religion. If the campaign were today, I'd expect that Tory wouldn't bring up the religion issue in fear of rejection from the 25% of people who are of no religion. The Liberals, on the other hand, would campaign on cutting religious funding to secure votes from the 25% of people who are of no religion.
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I think Tory wouldn't bring up the religion issue because he was taught at the polls that it was an asinine idea.
And I think that 10 years ago, the "no religion" camp was bigger than you think it was.
 
TheTigerMaster said:
Wow. 2nd today. I wonder what has motivated this. Are the police digging around again? Or is this related to Dave?
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Supposed Fickel's departure was planned for several months. If that was the case, there should have been someone hired and being trained in advance.
 
Here's an idea. How about no religion in school. I don't want kids to be indoctrinated with this stuff. Parents can send their kids to churches, mosques etc... for that.
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Not only should the lying to children in schools not be publicly funded...it should be considered child abuse to do it privately as well.
 
TOvp said:
Supposed Fickel's departure was planned for several months. If that was the case, there should have been someone hired and being trained in advance.
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He assisted Rob Ford with football coaching. When Ford lost his coaching job Fickel's position became redundant.
 
I am a secular atheist who graduated from the public secular school system. I believe that Catholic school funding should be reduced to 1¢ (as per the constitution, which cannot be amended easily in Canada). I believe in religious and non-religious equality.

The atheist and agnostic votes are huge and are becoming larger. Atheism and agnocism together make up the fastest growing "religion" in Ontario.
 
So wait, the NP has joined the Star-led commie socialist leftie conspiracy? Maybe this is the journalistic equivalent of the rope-and-dope.
 
Sorry to be O/T a bit, but I wasn't able to keep up with the thread yesterday/last night...


TheTigerMaster said:
I'm not surprised. My experience with the TCDSB (can't speak for other boards) is that they (or at least the principals) have little regard for the law. My cousin was told that if he wanted to enroll in his local school (run by TCDSB, won't name names), he'd have to be confirmed in a Church. Obviously that was illegal and it wasn't until his parents started pressuring the school that they allowed him to be admitted. And many of the schools continue to covertly practice homophobia, according to what I've been told by family/friends who work in the TCDSB.
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It sounds like the real issue here is the TCDSB. Where I'm from (smaller eatern ontario city) it wasn't at all like that. The city wasn't multicultural by any standard, but most faiths were fully tolerated and kids (or their parents) could opt out of whatever was necessary. There was no homophobia, either...

TheTigerMaster said:
Here's an idea. How about no religion in school. I don't want kids to be indoctrinated with this stuff. Parents can send their kids to churches, mosques etc... for that.
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Not sure why you'd send a kid to a Catholic school and then complain that they're being taught about Catholicism... ? that's why I don't understand half of the critiques here (or maybe it's just you posting about indoctrination over and over again) - I get (and agree with) the idea that in today's world, there shouldn't be a very specifically religious institution that is publically funded by taxpayers. It should be a choice. But at the same time, if Muslim schools were publically funded I wouldn't send my kid there and then complain that they are being indoctrinated into a faith that I knew the school would be teaching. I'm not sure how that makes any sense.

Tulse said:
Great...so what exactly made this a Catholic school then? In other words, if Catholic schools aren't going to teach the Catholic religion, why have Catholic schools at all? And if they are going to teach the Catholic faith, why fund them publicly?
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They certainly did teach Catholicism, it just wasn't as "take these classes or else" as TheTigerMaster seems to suggest it is. Nor was it indoctrination in the strictest/perjorative sense that TheTigerMaster seems to imply (IE - you shall not criticize or think about what we tell you), because there was always an emphasis on the plurality of faith and the fact that there is more than one religion. As much as you learned about the bible and Jesus and the creation story and whatever else, at the same time there were science classes where you'd be learning about evolution, sex ed, etc. With all of the craziness in the news about Fundamental Christians trying to get creationism taught as if it's fact, a lot of people seem to think that the same thing is happening here or that the same thing is taught in Catholic schools... but that fails to acknowledge the vast differences that Catholicism has compared to those other sects of Christianity, and the fact that Catholicism believes in the coexistence of God/Faith and science. But I have never believed (once I learned about it) that it should be publicly funded... the public funding, however, came about in a different time.
 
guitarchitect said:
Not sure why you'd send a kid to a Catholic school and then complain that they're being taught about Catholicism... ? that's why I don't understand half of the critiques here (or maybe it's just you posting about indoctrination over and over again) - I get (and agree with) the idea that in today's world, there shouldn't be a very specifically religious institution that is publically funded by taxpayers. It should be a choice. But at the same time, if Muslim schools were publically funded I wouldn't send my kid there and then complain that they are being indoctrinated into a faith that I knew the school would be teaching. I'm not sure how that makes any sense.
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Not all schools are identical. Some schools are better than others in specific fields, and it makes sense for certain students to go to specific schools. Unfortunately, due to our antiquated funding structure, some of those schools, although funded by public money, force religion classes on those students.

Our stance is yeah, it's odd that publicly-funded Catholic schools exist, and that funding should be pulled. Since it is not easy to do that, make it clear to all Catholic schools that such religion classes cannot be mandatory.


guitarchitect said:
They certainly did teach Catholicism, it just wasn't as "take these classes or else" as TheTigerMaster seems to suggest it is.
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Yes it is, in certain schools. My sister was told in no uncertain terms that if her son did not take these classes, he would not be allowed to graduate. Her requests for exemption from these classes for her son fell on deaf ears, until she threatened to escalate this. Then they backed down.

One might conclude from this that they know they're can't really force these classes on students, but do so anyway because they usually can get away with it.

guitarchitect said:
But I have never believed (once I learned about it) that it should be publicly funded...
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I agree, it doesn't belong in our modern education system.
 
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