News   Jul 12, 2024
199 Church Showcases Heritage Facade and Artwork at Street Level
 1.4K     0 
News   Jul 12, 2024
Six Points Plaza Redevelopment Advances With 36-Storey First Phase
 1.2K     1 
News   Jul 12, 2024
Trading Spaces: Can Real Estate Conversion Help Boost Housing Supply?
 409     0 

Rob Ford - Why the Supervillian?

Why does not supporting a TTC museum equate to RF being the most suitable candidate? This sort of binary posturing is most unhelpful to the debate.

AoD
 
AlvinofDiaspar said:
Why does not supporting a TTC museum equate to RF being the most suitable candidate? This sort of binary posturing is most unhelpful to the debate.

AoD
Click to expand...

It doesnt', that's why Rocco Rossi is by far the most superior candidate because he's laid out priorities and ways to pay for them.

But the reality is that Rob Ford represents a no frills type of individual where 'pet' projects like this further cements the case that the leadership at city hall has let the TTC run a muck with it's priorities and the purposes. He's the Anti-miller/Anti-NDP. anti-politician candidate. That is why he's appealing to such a broad spectrum of voters.

I wonder if there will be a Giambrone statue at this museum?
 
js97 said:
It doesnt', that's why Rocco Rossi is by far the most superior candidate because he's laid out priorities and ways to pay for them.

But the reality is that Rob Ford represents a no frills type of individual where 'pet' projects like this further cements the case that the leadership at city hall has let the TTC run a muck with it's priorities and the purposes. He's the Anti-miller/Anti-NDP. anti-politician candidate. That is why he's appealing to such a broad spectrum of voters.

I wonder if there will be a Giambrone statue at this museum?
Click to expand...

Perhaps we need an anti-politician to screw up the city for 4 years, to prove to "middle Toronto" that you actually need a politician for that role.

Reading TheStar's profiles of selected Ford voters, they didn't seem very dumb at all. I'm sure that after 4 years of deadlocked council, no new transit, and no change to municipal taxes, they'll realize just how stupid they were to put him in office.
 
js97 said:
It doesnt', that's why Rocco Rossi is by far the most superior candidate because he's laid out priorities and ways to pay for them.
Click to expand...
How can you possibly say something like that?

Rossi's numbers for selling Toronto Hydro to fund subway construction make absolutely no sense. Many people have pointed this out, and no one from Rossi's camp has shown any sign of explaning what they are thinking.

These over-the-top partisan comments really only serve to diminish the reputation of those who come up with them.
 
nfitz said:
How can you possibly say something like that?

Rossi's numbers for selling Toronto Hydro to fund subway construction make absolutely no sense. Many people have pointed this out, and no one from Rossi's camp has shown any sign of explaning what they are thinking.

These over-the-top partisan comments really only serve to diminish the reputation of those who come up with them.
Click to expand...

Pointed out what? That Toronto Hydro alone wont' cover the entire costs? And I think that's more than acknowleged by the campaign.

No one from Rossi's campaign has said Hydro will fetch them 3 B, but they've said they'll earmark the sale of non-essential assets to go directly to pay for the debt, which will inturn free up money to pay for subways.
If you don't think Toronto is selling it's assets already, think again. Schools are being sold through teh Toronto TPA like it was going out of style. Sold to 'select' developers with minimal/no stipulation on how/what to do with it.
 
js97 said:
Pointed out what? That Toronto Hydro alone wont' cover the entire costs? And I think that's more than acknowleged by the campaign.

No one from Rossi's campaign has said Hydro will fetch them 3 B, but they've said they'll earmark the sale of non-essential assets to go directly to pay for the debt, which will inturn free up money to pay for subways.
If you don't think Toronto is selling it's assets already, think again. Schools are being sold through teh Toronto TPA like it was going out of style. Sold to 'select' developers with minimal/no stipulation on how/what to do with it.
Click to expand...
The calculations that come from Rossi didn't themselves make sense. They didn't account for a chunk of the purchase price not going to Toronto, and they didn't account for the loss of revenue that the city is currently getting. No, it wouldn't pay for the whole thing ... but it wouldn't even provide the revenue stream that Rossi said it would. And I haven't seen anything from Rossi to correct those mistakes, even though it was clearly pointed out within days (hours?) of being released.
 
Coltaine79 said:
Perhaps we need an anti-politician to screw up the city for 4 years, to prove to "middle Toronto" that you actually need a politician for that role.

Reading The Star's profiles of selected Ford voters, they didn't seem very dumb at all. I'm sure that after 4 years of deadlocked council, no new transit, and no change to municipal taxes, they'll realize just how stupid they were to put him in office.
Click to expand...

The Ford voters didn't seem very dumb at all? Well, they certainly didn't seem very smart either. It looks like Ford had them duped. I'm sorry but if people can't see through Ford's manipulation and disingenuousness, I can't see how they can be considered smart or insightful. There are a whole lot of people out there who only see things on a superficial level, and that includes Ford himself. They are incapable of seeing the big picture or the context of things. Stupid or just naive?
 
In one of the profiles of a Ford voter that I read this weekend, the voter said he was voting for Ford but he hadn't really paid that much attention to election news/coverage. I suspect he's not alone. So smart people can make uninformed choices.
 
At this point, polls can be little more than name recognition games for uninformed voters. Of all the candidates, your average voter is only likely to have heard of Ford and Smitherman.

Smitherman should probably be panicking. He's the only other candidate with name recognition, and his support keeps dropping.

Maybe he should stop running against David Miller's policies and start speaking positively about Toronto?
 
nfitz said:
How can you possibly say something like that?

Rossi's numbers for selling Toronto Hydro to fund subway construction make absolutely no sense. Many people have pointed this out, and no one from Rossi's camp has shown any sign of explaning what they are thinking.

These over-the-top partisan comments really only serve to diminish the reputation of those who come up with them.
Click to expand...

Selling off any profitable enterprise owned by the city is short sighted and cynical. It only leads to the city being in a worse situation down the road but since politicians only look to the next election and don't care about the long term effects, we end up in this situation. Once these go private, the price always goes up. So what's the difference if we pay more in taxes or we pay more to a private company for hydro? (except it makes the rich, richer and Toronto, poorer)

This is just one reason why Rossi will not get my vote.
 
Last edited:
nfitz said:
The calculations that come from Rossi didn't themselves make sense. They didn't account for a chunk of the purchase price not going to Toronto, and they didn't account for the loss of revenue that the city is currently getting. No, it wouldn't pay for the whole thing ... but it wouldn't even provide the revenue stream that Rossi said it would. And I haven't seen anything from Rossi to correct those mistakes, even though it was clearly pointed out within days (hours?) of being released.
Click to expand...

Yes, there is a capital gains tax, but again, no one has said it will cover the entire 3 billion. If you'd looked at the books of Toronto Hydro, you would know that this revenue stream includes the over distribution of 'dividends', or retained earnings by TH, leaving little money for future up keep of infrastructure etc.

The reality is that the city has already been mortaging the future value of Toronto Hydro through excessive dividends and selling bonds. In title the city holds the asset, but there are so many loans/future costs associated with it that it's value diminishes as we continue to to hold the asset.

The 'revenue stream of 450 million a year is the equivelent payment of the current debt. To break it down to basic finance, he's essentially getting a 10 year mortgage that requires. The pennies might not add up, but it's still the MOST feasible dollar measurement and plan that can fund subways (sarah thomson of 5 dollars for tolls will require every driver to dish out an extra 900 dollars a year)

and I'm sorry, but 'transit' city is NOT happening. 4 billion dollars the provincial government doesn't have (did you notice how many new taxes/forms of revenue they've been trying to implement. Reality check, province is broke.)


I' know I'm not talking to a finance guy, so I will stop trying to convince you otherwise.
 
Torontovibe said:
Selling off any profitable enterprise owned by the city is short sighted and cynical. It only leads to the city being in a worse situation down the road but since politicians only look to the next election and don't care about the long term effects, we end up in this situation. Once these go private, the price always goes up. So what's the difference if we pay more in taxes or we pay more to a private company for hydro? (except it makes the rich, richer and Toronto, poorer)

This is just one reason why Rossi will not get my vote.
Click to expand...

Just too ensure you check your facts right.

-Hydro generation (sources of hydro, coal/power etc) is an ontario body, Toronto hydro does not have any say, they are simply a distribution company.

-Electricity rates are regulated by the province

-For the 1 to 1.5 billion dollars it's worth, it brings in about 25 million-50 million annually in revenue. City also receives dividends, but these SHOULD be retained for infrastructure upgrade, and shouldn't be paid out. (There was a star article pointing this out, talkin about mortgaging the future?).

At the end of the day, yes Toronto Hydro is a worthwile company to keep, but when you're knee deep in debt, at 450 million a year in payments ( what do you think the portion of interest in that is?)


Continuing to pay an exorbitant amount of interest in debt and depleting the retained earnings of Toronto Hydro is mortaging the future.

Of course, you can always raise more taxes to make those payments.

FYI, that debt went from 1.2 billion 8 years ago to neairly 3 billion now. You think it will get smaller?

The city is also short about 250 million next year for operating funding. 'hoping' the province will kick in some funds.


It's easy to say that we should keep a company that brings in a small revenue stream, but you have to look at the entire picture, including the amount of interest portion that is paid on oustanding debt.

It's very much like personal finances, you're reluctant to sell a hotdog stand worth 1000.00 because you receive 20 dollars in income. In the mean while, you're paying 40 dollars a month on a 3000 dollar credit card debt.


It's about moving forward and getting the best bang for your buck.

At the end of the day, it will reuqire council approval, and I'm sure the real numbers and benefits vs. downfalls will come out in the debate. Less rhetoric, more facts.
 
Last edited:
Coltaine79 said:
Perhaps we need an anti-politician to screw up the city for 4 years, to prove to "middle Toronto" that you actually need a politician for that role.
Click to expand...

Do you realise that what your quote above says that we need an actual politician to screw up the city?
 
Torontovibe said:
The Ford voters didn't seem very dumb at all? Well, they certainly didn't seem very smart either. It looks like Ford had them duped. I'm sorry but if people can't see through Ford's manipulation and disingenuousness, I can't see how they can be considered smart or insightful. There are a whole lot of people out there who only see things on a superficial level, and that includes Ford himself. They are incapable of seeing the big picture or the context of things. Stupid or just naive?
Click to expand...

I would be careful throwing around accusations of Ford supporters being dumb after the latest polling information. If David Miller was to run the polls showed that he would have 51% support. Without him in the race Joe Pantalone has <10% even though there is no policy difference between the two. So are Miller supporters.....

a) Unimformed
B) Biggitoed
C) Superfical
?
 
You must log in or register to post here.

Back
Top