Roads: Traffic Signals

[afransen]

It's also painful how councillors act as if a traffic signal is the only safe way for a pedestrian to cross the street. It's not, but the bureaucracy is not set up to actually redesign unsignalized intersections to make them safer, we just slap a signal on the same crappy intersection design there always was and pretend that we made things safer.

All these redundant signals must be adding tens of millions to the city's budget to maintain.

 

[Towered]

The long dormant lights at the Litho condo just west of Christie and Dupont are finally live!

 

[imerk]

The long dormant lights at the Litho condo just west of Christie and Dupont are finally live!

Great, another set of useless too-closely-spaced set of traffic signals.

 

[PL1]

I just noticed that the pedestrian crosswalk sounds (or at least some) are being changed. I first noticed it at Yonge and Dundas last Sunday, and today at Bayview and Eglinton. The sound going east-west is three descending tones with a pause, rather than the bird chirp. I haven't seen anything in the news, and the Toronto webpage still mentions Cuckoos and chirps.

 

[11th]

I just noticed that the pedestrian crosswalk sounds (or at least some) are being changed. I first noticed it at Yonge and Dundas last Sunday, and today at Bayview and Eglinton. The sound going east-west is three descending tones with a pause, rather than the bird chirp. I haven't seen anything in the news, and the Toronto webpage still mentions Cuckoos and chirps.

It's called the "Canadian Melody"

 

[DSC]

@reaperexpress posted the note below in one of the cycling threads - those interested in traffic signals may want to see if they can send suggestions to the OTC

We do indeed need to drag the MTO kicking and screaming when it comes to cycling infrastructure, but luckily the provincial cycling design book (Ontario Traffic Manual Book 18) is actually led by the Ontario Traffic Council which is mostly separate from the MTO. The current OTM Book 18 (2021) is actually pretty good. In the past I would usually need to refer to Dutch design standards when advocating for better infrastructure but nowadays I can just point to our very own manuals that say the same thing. It can take many years between design and construction so some designs currently under construction predate the current manual (and nearly all of them predate the Protected Intersection guide) so we can expect an improvement in quality in the coming few years as smaller cities world-class Ontario manuals to look to.

The previous Book 18 was crap, it basically said "i dunno, just do whatever i guess". I think it was the shortest-lived OTM book ever, it was published in 2014 and was already replaced in 2021. By comparison the current Book 12 (Traffic signals) is from 2012 and will be replaced in 2025.

EDIT:

I just looked at the OTC website and they do seem to accept 'requests". The OTC has a representative on the Updates to OTM Book 12 and 12A Technical Advisory Group (Heide Schlegl). If you have any comments please send them to the OTC through geoff@otc.org . ”

 

[reaperexpress]

@reaperexpress posted the note below in one of the cycling threads - those interested in traffic signals may want to see if they can send suggestions to the OTC

We do indeed need to drag the MTO kicking and screaming when it comes to cycling infrastructure, but luckily the provincial cycling design book (Ontario Traffic Manual Book 18) is actually led by the Ontario Traffic Council which is mostly separate from the MTO. The current OTM Book 18 (2021) is actually pretty good. In the past I would usually need to refer to Dutch design standards when advocating for better infrastructure but nowadays I can just point to our very own manuals that say the same thing. It can take many years between design and construction so some designs currently under construction predate the current manual (and nearly all of them predate the Protected Intersection guide) so we can expect an improvement in quality in the coming few years as smaller cities world-class Ontario manuals to look to.

The previous Book 18 was crap, it basically said "i dunno, just do whatever i guess". I think it was the shortest-lived OTM book ever, it was published in 2014 and was already replaced in 2021. By comparison the current Book 12 (Traffic signals) is from 2012 and will be replaced in 2025.

EDIT:

I just looked at the OTC website and they do seem to accept 'requests". The OTC has a representative on the Updates to OTM Book 12 and 12A Technical Advisory Group (Heide Schlegl). If you have any comments please send them to the OTC through geoff@otc.org . ”

Book 12 is done in-house by the MTO and unfortunately OTC has little influence over it. My comments were already submitted to the Book 12 team a year ago and they were rejected point blank for being 'too late' (though the manual still hasn't come out yet a year later...)

 

[Dan416]

What does everyone think the most important thing to add for signals is? European style transit signals for LRTs?

 

[DSC]

What does everyone think the most important thing to add for signals is? European style transit signals for LRTs?

I think there DOES need to be more thought on European style transit signals and I think the use of Green Arrows need to be expanded to permit them. Example: driving south on Victoria when you reach Adelaide you MUST turn left (east) as Victoria south of Adelaide is one way north and Adelaide is one way eastbound. There are two green lights, a green left-turn arrow where vehicles have priority and a solid green light where vehicles should stop for pedestrians crossing Adelaide - who then have a walk signal. Vehicles quite often try to go straight south due to solid green light so why not NO solid green and use a flashing green arrow for the vehicle priority and a solid green arrow when pedestrians have priority?

 

[afransen]

I like the idea of near-side signals being legalized. They can be used here, but only as supplements to far-side signals. I think near-side signals lead to much better driver behaviour... less overshooting of the stop line and encroaching on the crosswalk.

 

[dullturtle06]

I think there DOES need to be more thought on European style transit signals and I think the use of Green Arrows need to be expanded to permit them. Example: driving south on Victoria when you reach Adelaide you MUST turn left (east) as Victoria south of Adelaide is one way north and Adelaide is one way eastbound. There are two green lights, a green left-turn arrow where vehicles have priority and a solid green light where vehicles should stop for pedestrians crossing Adelaide - who then have a walk signal. Vehicles quite often try to go straight south due to solid green light so why not NO solid green and use a flashing green arrow for the vehicle priority and a solid green arrow when pedestrians have priority?

I think that the dedicated left turn signals should have red, yellow, and green arrows instead of solids. Makes it more clear what that signal is for. Besides such signals are seen in most jurisdictions, why not ontario?

 

[lenaitch]

I think that the dedicated left turn signals should have red, yellow, and green arrows instead of solids. Makes it more clear what that signal is for. Besides such signals are seen in most jurisdictions, why not ontario?View attachment 591024

Couple that with the left turn signal and 'regular' signal mounted on arms of equal length and the "left turn signal" mounted on a pole equidistant between them.

 

[nfitz]

I'm not sure why you'd need a red arrow. A simple red should suffice. I personally find things like red arrows, and flashing red pedestrian lights confusing, with it implying go and don't go at the same time.

 

[11th]

I think there DOES need to be more thought on European style transit signals and I think the use of Green Arrows need to be expanded to permit them. Example: driving south on Victoria when you reach Adelaide you MUST turn left (east) as Victoria south of Adelaide is one way north and Adelaide is one way eastbound. There are two green lights, a green left-turn arrow where vehicles have priority and a solid green light where vehicles should stop for pedestrians crossing Adelaide - who then have a walk signal. Vehicles quite often try to go straight south due to solid green light so why not NO solid green and use a flashing green arrow for the vehicle priority and a solid green arrow when pedestrians have priority?

Currently a solid green arrow indicates priority - left turn signal as an example.
What is required in your situation would be a flashing yellow right arrow (although not in MTO's handbook) - proceed with caution when clear.

 

[lenaitch]

Currently a solid green arrow indicates priority - left turn signal as an example.
What is required in your situation would be a flashing yellow right arrow (although not in MTO's handbook) - proceed with caution when clear.

I think that is something like the 'Michigan left'' signal (although I don't know how it applies to pedestrians). A green arrow means an unobstructed/priority let turn; a flashing yellow arrow means oncoming traffic. A solid arrow is the transition to red.

We need to keep in mind that the Ontario Traffic Council might write the handbooks, but any change in legislation/regulations regarding traffic light operation, colour, aspect, etc. needs to come from government.