Dan416
Senior Member
I feel like any time they extend the yellow or red phase this happens.
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Roads: Traffic Signals
- Thread starter reaperexpress
- Start date
reaperexpress
Senior Member
1. European-style two-dimensional red clearance time calculations (this is an Ontario Traffic Manual issue, there's no conflict with the HTA)
2. Flexible phase control structures to eliminate irrelevant restrictions on phase combinations (this is actually not a regulatory issue, just an electrical compatibility issue between EU controllers and NA cabinets)
3. Lane-based signal alignment (currently impractical due to OTM's 5.0m minimum lateral separation)
4. More signal indications (diagonal white bar for transit turns; red arrows for left/right turn signals; flashing yellow arrow for permissive turns in one direction - this is an HTA reg. 626 issue)
5. Near-side only signals (this is an HTA reg.626 issue). Most other places in North America already permit near-side only signals, it's just Ontario who insists that the primary signal heads need to be more than halfway through the intersection.
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lenaitch
Senior Member
You're right; I conflated the two.. Tnx
2323
New Member
Supplementary near side signals do exist in some capacity in Ontario already. For some reason when they rebuilt Highway 7 some intersections got one singular near-side signal. I see them mostly in Ontaio for intersections that might have poor light visibility (ei: trucks, sharp turns), but they are certainly rare and definitly not meant to be the primary signals.
Jonny5
Senior Member
Pedestrian activated crosswalks illuminated right in the road surface with LED lighting in Quebec.
Sounds like an improvement over our current setup, though it's unproven yet how well they will survive the winter and traffic and snow plows.
Though my first thought is it should be red LED instead of white, or maybe blinking yellow, or alternating red and white.
Sounds like an improvement over our current setup, though it's unproven yet how well they will survive the winter and traffic and snow plows.
Though my first thought is it should be red LED instead of white, or maybe blinking yellow, or alternating red and white.
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nfitz
Superstar
I don't see how they survive the winter salt, let alone the plough scraping the road.
What might work is lighting that tries to create a similar effect, mounted on a pole.
What might work is lighting that tries to create a similar effect, mounted on a pole.
afransen
Senior Member
tripwire
Active Member
Love the idea actually - maybe should've added a heating element to melt snow? Will be interesting to see how it holds up with plows (ploughs?), salt, road traffic, etc.
lenaitch
Senior Member
Interesting concepts. Recessed LED 'cats-eyes' have been around for a few years. Seasonal obscurity would depend a lot on how deep the snow cover is, but the lumen output of LED technology has come a long way. Adding heating elements adds a lot of complexity, both from power requirements and the potential to create an icy surface.
I would thing overhead projection will loose a lot of its effectiveness when the surface becomes more uneven. Roads are rarely covered in a nice even layer of snow.
I would thing overhead projection will loose a lot of its effectiveness when the surface becomes more uneven. Roads are rarely covered in a nice even layer of snow.
afransen
Senior Member
Absent potholes, I don't think that snowy path is as smooth much less smoother than asphalt. I've seen such projectors in indoor (facility managers love them as a safety feature) and outdoor contexts and they are very bright.
Mind_the_gap
Active Member
It really does seem to me the way this city implemented Leading Pedestrian Intervals is a joke:
It's just meant to slow everyone down unnecessarily.
The Ottawa implementation is way more logical. First a "Straight" arrow appears, then green:
This is in line with Quebec's implementations:
(Thank you at @reaperexpress for introducing me to Jackson Bourret!)
Ottawa did it right. Toronto instead penalizes all through-traffic (be it car, bus, or bike), as if the desire were to slow the city down as much as possible.
Three seconds at almost every traffic signal really adds up, and can be counterproductive itself.
It's just meant to slow everyone down unnecessarily.
The Ottawa implementation is way more logical. First a "Straight" arrow appears, then green:
This is in line with Quebec's implementations:
(Thank you at @reaperexpress for introducing me to Jackson Bourret!)
Ottawa did it right. Toronto instead penalizes all through-traffic (be it car, bus, or bike), as if the desire were to slow the city down as much as possible.
Three seconds at almost every traffic signal really adds up, and can be counterproductive itself.
bearcat
Active Member
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It's probably because there is no money to replace the traffic lights with ones that have a straight arrow in addition to a regular green signal. What Toronto implemented is presumably just a software change that costs little to implement.
Mind_the_gap
Active Member
^ Still three seconds of unnecessary idling...
Do it properly or don't do it at all...
Do it properly or don't do it at all...
reaperexpress
Senior Member
The City's standard LPI duration is actually 5 seconds, so it's even worse than that.
"Unnecessary idling" is a red herring that is only really used as an argument by people who want to shoehorn car traffic into places it doesn't belong. In reality the negligible impact of longer idling times for internal-combustion vehicles without stop/start technology is generally offset by reductions in trip attractiveness (fewer trips). I don't recommend using idling as an argument.
What is an issue, however, is the lack of credibility. Showing a red light while there's no actual conflict is a surefire way to normalize signal non-compliance. Which is a huge safety issue since signals only work if people obey them. On top of vehicles heading straight, current LPI implementations make the Flashing Don't Walk countdown meaningless since you can often start crossing after the countdown has ended and still make it all the way across the street before traffic gets a green.
The City's LPI approach is deeply flawed as Jackson has done an excellent job of documenting. There are many ways of minimizing unnecessary impacts of LPI, such as arranging phases such that the LPI occurs during time that the signal needs to be red regardless, using dedicated signal heads to hold back right turns while allowing thru movements, or using leading thru intervals, the latter two of which are done in Ottawa, but are virtually unheard of in Toronto.
reaperexpress
Senior Member
I live in Ottawa and although I like the leading thru intervals in theory, they don't seem to work in practice. Drivers just turn during the thru arrow just as they would on a green ball.
However in Québec drivers do seem to recognize the thru arrow, and wait for it to end before turning. Maybe it's just a matter of familiarity and Ontario drivers would learn to wait if LTIs were more common.
At the moment, the best solution available in Ottawa seems to be this one, with both an LPI and an LTI. The LPI increases compliance with the no right turn restriction, while the LTI avoids unnecessary delay to thru traffic:
An example in Massachussetts using red arrows and flashing yellow arrows: