W. K. Lis
Superstar
Many of the roadways could be buried for later archaeologists (or tomb raiders) to unearth. Except for the underground utilities, watermains and sewers, which have to be relocated and/or raised.
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Roads: Six Points Interchange Reconfiguration (City of Toronto, UC)
GavinTheAlmighty
Active Member
Northbound traffic during rush hour STINKS. The 45 and 46 enter Kipling at St. Alban's Road, which hits Kipling on the "before" side of the traffic lights, but traffic is insanely backed up at that point. Vehicles now enter Kipling based solely on the good will of drivers on Kipling northbound. Yes, they have to yield to buses, but that doesn't matter if there's a line of cars on St. Alban's before the bus gets there.
I don't know what a better solution is, but this is going to be painful for the next 18 months. Opening up another northbound lane will help, but you'll still run into traffic backup issues with the lights at Bloor Street. There will need to be a much better semblance of coordination than there currently is.
Edllguy
Active Member
^^^This is definitely an issue that we will experience, as you said "going to be painful for the next 18 months". I see that backup from my balcony on the onramp to Kiping north Mon to Fri during rush hour.
A possible solution to is take take St Albans to Dundas, turn right and then make a left on Dundas to Kipling north. That's what I do or
take Viking Lane and turn right on Dundas. However, I know that shortcut is now busy with large school buses, trucks and local traffic plus the local residents don't like vehicles taking a shortcut there due to safety concerns now that the condo kids generation is in full boom.
A possible solution to is take take St Albans to Dundas, turn right and then make a left on Dundas to Kipling north. That's what I do or
take Viking Lane and turn right on Dundas. However, I know that shortcut is now busy with large school buses, trucks and local traffic plus the local residents don't like vehicles taking a shortcut there due to safety concerns now that the condo kids generation is in full boom.
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muller877
Senior Member
But according to City Hall there is no or minimal impact to driver. (cough cough) You must be imagining things!!!!
BjamesT
Active Member
That's not true at all.
Traffic Management
Efforts have been made to manage traffic in the area for the safety of workers, road users and residents. Road users should expect delays and increased traffic on nearby main and side streets. Efforts have been made to manage traffic in the area for the safety of workers, road users and residents. Road users should continue to obey all posted traffic signage.
Transit Service
This project will affect travel times of all TTC and MiWay Routes to and from Kipling Subway Station that travel along Dundas Street West.
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They have made the impression that in its finished state, the new configuration will not prove a major impact to drivers, but at no point during construction have they implied that and in fact have been pretty clear that this will slow your travel times.
Steve X
Senior Member
No they don't. The yield rule to applies to buses leaving a bus bay. Buses don't have priority for regular lane changes or entering from a side road. It's treated as a regular vehicle and if the bus decided not to wait and gets in a collision, the bus driver will be charged. Otherwise they wouldn't have a hard time getting out.
Yielding only applies for buses in a bus bay:
https://www.ontario.ca/laws/regulation/020393
nfitz
Superstar
Bus bay being defined as to include a bus stop along a street, where there are no physical bays per se. So includes entering traffic from between parked cars - but doesn't include intersections, etc.
W. K. Lis
Superstar
drum118
Superstar
What Yield?? Haven't seen one illegal driver get a ticket so far. Been on many buses where the bus drivers has to wait for a row of cars to them them since they refused to allow them move.
Leo_Chan
Senior Member
Isn’t this only for buses going flashing their left signal? Wouldn’t turning out from a Right-In-Right-Out not count?
muller877
Senior Member
I yield (and get honked at by the cars behind me)...but interesting. If the bus stop is in a dedicated right hand turn lane does the bus have the ROW to get back into traffic? Lots of these outside the downtown core.
I also wish bus drivers knew how to use their signals. Almost as bad as drivers. If you start blinking more drivers will let you in.
junctionist
Senior Member
I drove through the area for the first time today since the road reconfiguration was opened for the first time. The new configuration will take some getting used to, but what's concerning is how car-centric it still is. The streets are wide. The corners are rounded at intersections so that vehicles can make faster right turns instead of optimizing pedestrian safety by requiring slower and more careful driving. There are no medians. It needs finetuning to optimize pedestrian safety.
W. K. Lis
Superstar
Looks like the road lanes are designed not for the posted speed limit of 50 km/h and the safety of pedestrians, but designed for the safety of speeders doing 100 km/h (or more?).
crs1026
Superstar
^I’m all for safe streets also, but one has to be realistic about what the design specs for this project were. Some of the disappointment may be because expectations have run away.
Dundas/Bloor/Kipling is an intersection of three of Etobicoke’s busiest arterial roads.
The new junction does nothing (nor was ever promised to) to offer an alternative to driving. So, while it frees up land for development, and hopefully results in a new built form that is not auto-centric, it will not make any of today’s cars disappear. The same people will need to get from A to B, and Six Points will still be midpoint on their route.
If we throttle all that traffic too much, we just reduce velocity, not volume. So our new ‘walkable’ district has a continuing flow of creeping, idling vehicles, likely backing up even further than at present. And likely a good deal of infiltratio into surrounding back streets, many of which are residential. Hard to reconcile that with a walkable environment..... or a better urban plan.
If we really intended to create a no-go zone for cars, we should have built it somewhere else. Or build more transit across Six Points. So long as people use cars, Six Points will be full of them. The plan was never to ban autos in central Etobicoke. The new layout will always be a tradeoff, not a pedestrian best case.
- Paul
Dundas/Bloor/Kipling is an intersection of three of Etobicoke’s busiest arterial roads.
The new junction does nothing (nor was ever promised to) to offer an alternative to driving. So, while it frees up land for development, and hopefully results in a new built form that is not auto-centric, it will not make any of today’s cars disappear. The same people will need to get from A to B, and Six Points will still be midpoint on their route.
If we throttle all that traffic too much, we just reduce velocity, not volume. So our new ‘walkable’ district has a continuing flow of creeping, idling vehicles, likely backing up even further than at present. And likely a good deal of infiltratio into surrounding back streets, many of which are residential. Hard to reconcile that with a walkable environment..... or a better urban plan.
If we really intended to create a no-go zone for cars, we should have built it somewhere else. Or build more transit across Six Points. So long as people use cars, Six Points will be full of them. The plan was never to ban autos in central Etobicoke. The new layout will always be a tradeoff, not a pedestrian best case.
- Paul
GavinTheAlmighty
Active Member
Well, that's unfortunate and just makes the situation worse.