Roads: Roundabouts

[nfitz]

Taking a test on these parking lots these days does not give the testers a true view how a driver can drive in real traffic conditions.

Do Ontario tests really not take you onto real street?!?!?

My test was in Quebec ... a quarter-century ago. It was always on real streets, once you survived the unnecessary, but still there stop signs in the parking lot for the test centre.

Not sure I can say much really though, because I don't think I actually knew how to parallel park at the time ... but the day I tested, was what was then the biggest ice storm anyone had ever seen in Montreal (which pales to what happened in 1998) ... so if you were brave enough to show up for your test, and safely got the car around the block with all the failed lights and stuck cars ... then you got your licence without having to do the 3-point turn and parallel parking, that weren't possible anywhere that day ... also given Montreal drivers seem to not be able to use signals ...

Further to the comments above, I agree that the yield sign is not doing the trick.

I watched the DoY roundabout for about 45 minutes on Saturday and came away with the following observations:

Your observations sound like a typical well-designed roundabout constructed in Ontario in the last decade. What are you seeing that's different here than other roundabouts?

 

[Tuscani01]

I have said far too long even when I was driving 100,000km a year that 50% of drivers should not be on the road, as they don't known the rules and how to drive in the first place.

Taking a test on these parking lots these days does not give the testers a true view how a driver can drive in real traffic conditions.

Some of those testers should not be testers in the first place.

The real problem starts at driving schools with the instructors. I have seen some of these instructors in action and only can shake my head how they got their license to teach, as they were breaking all kinds of traffic rules in the first place.

I got tested the old way by driving on the real road around Downsview test centre. The only thing the tester question me on my road test after doing it was "why were you driving 5 miles under the speed limit at times?". I said there was a light rain falling and the road was a little slick and wanted to make sure I would not slide if I had to hit the breaks because of the action of another driver. Tester said "good answer and reason and here is your licenses". Had a perfect score for both test.

I strongly believe that everyone should be tested every 5-10 years, as your driving habits change overtime. Mine did for the worse than back to good with no tickets or accidents. The testing should be done on the highway as well local streets.

Tests ARE done on the highway and local streets. The only place where you drove on a 'test course' was Brampton, but that closed down many years ago. You now do the test on the roads around the testing centre, and on the 410.

 

[Woodbridge_Heights]

Tests ARE done on the highway and local streets. The only place where you drove on a 'test course' was Brampton, but that closed down many years ago. You now do the test on the roads around the testing centre, and on the 410.

Even at Brampton (John Rhodes test centre?) you did a portion of your test on public roads. Just some of the more 'technical' aspects were done on the test course; i.e. parallel park, park on incline, reverse park, three point turns.

 

[Marko]

Your observations sound like a typical well-designed roundabout constructed in Ontario in the last decade. What are you seeing that's different here than other roundabouts?

Like I said - it's mostly the drivers. If you want to correct or change the way the intersection works because of their habits, the suggestion(s) I made were to bring more visible attention to the fact that drivers need to slow and cede right of way, since they don't seem to know what yield means, and perhaps not design it so it can be taken so quickly by drivers who don't know or don't care to drive safely.

 

[nfitz]

... so it can be taken so quickly by drivers who don't know or don't care to drive safely.

What are you meaning by fast though. 40? 50? 60? If there's no traffic in the way, and your not going to rear end anyone, there's no reason to crawl around a roundabout.

 

[Marko]

What are you meaning by fast though. 40? 50? 60? If there's no traffic in the way, and your not going to rear end anyone, there's no reason to crawl around a roundabout.

Honestly, what I witnessed was all of the above, and it's not even like DoY is a major road.

I would say that about half of drivers handles it just right, while a small number did the old 'stop and crawl through' or stopped half way through. Of the remainder, it would be split evenly between drivers who didn't bother to check left and drivers who took it too fast whether they looked or not.

I never had a problem with the roundabout itself and think having then line the length of DoY would be an appealing way to highlight the street that runs along the city's civic core - I just don't have faith in North American drivers, having driven in probably 5 provinces and 15 states. I like that you can get from one end to the other a little more quickly, but there will be backups at Rathburn and Burnhamthorpe and I think that even if there isn't an increase in accidents, it will make driving more frustrating - very much like when some bonehead comes to a near stop while entering a highway.

 

[nfitz]

I just don't have faith in North American drivers, having driven in probably 5 provinces and 15 states.

You've observed then, that similar roundabouts elsewhere don't seem to create problems. Why do you think North American drivers will have a particular problem with this roundabout?

 

[vz64]

You've observed then, that similar roundabouts elsewhere don't seem to create problems. Why do you think North American drivers will have a particular problem with this roundabout?

Perhaps because you need to drive all the way to Mississauga to experience driving in the roundabout? I was lucky to drive in many European countries where you pass a roundabout every few minutes... especially when you drive in rural areas. I think the most frequntly encountered intersection there is not a cross-road but a T-type intersection. So, you almost always move there without stopping at endless stop signs or traffic lights.

Re driving requirements--the road test is very simple in Ontario. I took mine back in 1993 and it was a piece of cake. I recall my first driving experience in Toronto was similar to riding a conveyor belt--everyone drives at the same speed with minimal lane changes... I took my driving license in Israel back in 1990. It took me three tests to pass it (and many said I was lucky); the testers were allowed to trick you by asking to turn into "no entrance" street etc.; during the test you would pass at least 5 roundabouts, some very narrow roads, which were two-way roads, and some wide roads, which were one-way streets... For parallel parking you would have a spot as long as your car… Then when you pass that hell of the driving test you need to drive with a "new driver" sign for couple of years (imagine what how other drivers treat you?). After two years of driving in Israel I felt comfortable driving in Europe, Mexico, or South America... nevermind Toronto

 

[JasonParis]

Even at Brampton (John Rhodes test centre?) you did a portion of your test on public roads. Just some of the more 'technical' aspects were done on the test course; i.e. parallel park, park on incline, reverse park, three point turns.

Maybe I'm dating myself, but my entire test at John Rhodes was done in the centre.

 

[Tuscani01]

Maybe I'm dating myself, but my entire test at John Rhodes was done in the centre.

Same here... the whole test was done within the centre. When I went for my G test (John Rhodes had closed already) was the only time I used an actual road.

This was all in the past 7 years or so too...

 

[Marko]

I did my test 21 years ago in K-W. Only small portions of the test were in the facility and the majority was on city streets - including some tricky sections. I failed the first time because he tricked me into turning into a one-way the wrong way, where two one-ways fed in opposing directions onto the street I was on. A 17 year old kid would expect that they'd take you out to test you, not to trick you, but I passed just fine 3 weeks later.

Years later, a girlfriend of mine couldn't get on a highway without shaking and nearing tears, which blew me away that she never did in Young Drivers. Highways weren't part of my test, nor hers, but even Young Drivers? What the hell are they charging for?

I would hope that since Waterloo region is using roundabouts liberally that they be included in testing for new drivers.

 

[theautomator]

Interestingly, people in Mississauga often make errors with this type of signalling in dedicated right turn lanes at traffic lights with yield signs. You should signal to the left here to show you want to merge (most people signal to the right).

OT but Huh????
If the turn places the driver in a lane dedicated to collecting right turning vehicles than the driver would signal to the left after completing the right turn manouvre indicating their intention to merge. Most drivers though signal the right turn and fail to signal the merge (most drivers fail to signal any lane change).

I believe we agree.

 

[drum118]

I shot this during Open Doors on Oct 1 from Sheridan.
[video=youtube;vo2zZXcBDoI]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vo2zZXcBDoI[/video]

 

[reaperexpress]

Great footage, drum! I could watch that all day.

It seems to be working pretty well, though a few drivers seem a bit timid (chalk that up to Ontarians' inexperience with roundabouts and yielding). These drivers can be annoyance for drivers stuck behind them, but they certainly do not pose any danger.

 

[BUGEYEDBRIT]

you lot don't know what a roundabout is till you've seen this:

Five small roundabouts that make up a larger one, no wonder its called the 'magic roundabout', its in Swindon in the UK, and its nuts, but having driven over it a couple of times, it kind of works.