Roads: Ontario/GTA Highways Discussion

[lenaitch]

rebuild Highway 11 to full freeway status between Barrie and Gavernhurst.

I don't think anyone on here will live to see that. It is within my memory before the box beam was installed and left turns were allowed. That was a death trap.

Seeing these OnRoute pictures makes me wish they would get serious about building some locations north of Barrie

I honest don't know what there criteria is for a direct-access OnRoute. There seems to be inconsistencies but without knowing policy its hard to tell. The only thing Hwy 400 has north of Barrie is a few close-by but off-highway developments at Waubaushene, Port Severn and south of Parry Sound. Somebody keeps trying to build at Mount St. Louis Rd. (off highway) but it keeps getting shot down

 

[2323]

MTO technically has plans to eventually widen the newer Skyway bridge (Niagara-Bound) to add HOVs for both directions - but they haven't done the EA for it. It would likely cost hundreds of millions to do.

View attachment 690455

Also - I will note that the Ford government promised to "re-evaluate" HOV lanes in their election platform this year, so we may find MTO drops the idea of HOVs entirely soon anyway.

Is that a proposed freeway between the 406 and QEW?

 

[Morriston1986]

yes the continued slow progress on the whole project is very frustrating. The province needs to just pony up the cash and build the whole thing.

A reminder of what the Brock Rd interchange is supposed to look like once fully completed - Note that there is not planned to be a NB 6 > WB 401 ramp, MTO will have to build an interim one somewhere, unless they want to go and build the new 6 bypass ramp over the 401.

View attachment 688749

Thank your for the information, interesting that they are calling this any sort of progress though, is there construction planned with this sort of study

 

[ShonTron]

Is that a proposed freeway between the 406 and QEW?

It’s south of the 406 terminus at the roundabout at Main Street in Welland, and it appears to be an extension of Highway 58A to the QEW near the Netherby Road exit. Highway 140 looks like it would be four-laned as well.

Likely not a full freeway, but a four lane highway.

 

[Haljackey]

MTO technically has plans to eventually widen the newer Skyway bridge (Niagara-Bound) to add HOVs for both directions - but they haven't done the EA for it. It would likely cost hundreds of millions to do.

View attachment 690455

Also - I will note that the Ford government promised to "re-evaluate" HOV lanes in their election platform this year, so we may find MTO drops the idea of HOVs entirely soon anyway.

Widening the skyway bridge strictly for HOVs does seem excessive. Simply converting one GP lane on the bridge to HOV should work. I know the government wants HOVs to be entirely new capacity but this could be an exception.

As for possibly dropping HOVs- I wonder if that might just kill anything new proposed- existing ones grandfathered? In some areas where the HOV+buffer+shoulder could become 2 regular lanes, I could see them possibly converting that but it would be messy.

 

[innsertnamehere]

Widening the skyway bridge strictly for HOVs does seem excessive. Simply converting one GP lane on the bridge to HOV should work. I know the government wants HOVs to be entirely new capacity but this could be an exception.

As for possibly dropping HOVs- I wonder if that might just kill anything new proposed- existing ones grandfathered? In some areas where the HOV+buffer+shoulder could become 2 regular lanes, I could see them possibly converting that but it would be messy.

You just would never see it under the Ford government and frankly doing so would likely only make traffic worse anyway. Long term MTO wants to see the Skyway changed into a collector-express system of some sort, but that's probably decades down the line. The interim decision would be at some point widening the Niagara-bound bridge to add HOVs.

I don't think the major issue with traffic in the area is the bridges themselves to be honest anyway - money right now would be better spent in Burlington making the 8 lanes continuous to the Freeman interchange and in Hamilton fixing the RHVP interchange which has weaving issues.

IIRC when they built the HOVs through Oakville and Burlington they "lost" the ability to do 10 lanes on that part of the QEW. Deleting the HOVs may allow them to do 10 lanes through there, though the highway platform would still be too narrow and they would either need to widen it a few metres or accept substandard shoulder widths.

 

[ericmacm]

Seeing these OnRoute pictures makes me wish they would get serious about building some locations north of Barrie. And rebuild Highway 11 to full freeway status between Barrie and Gavernhurst. That route was a death trap during the thanksgiving weekend.

I think we are slowly inching closer to seeing some action on HWY 11 happen, mainly with the section between Barrie and Orillia. I like to think that the HWY 11/HWY 12 reconstruction and interchange reconfigurations through Orillia and the HWY 11/Penetanguishene Road interchange reconfiguration project that is due to start in 2027 are setting up both ends of that segment of the road for the construction of a new freeway alignment.

As for the section between Orillia and Gravenhurst, it’s hard to say.

 

[innsertnamehere]

I think we are slowly inching closer to seeing some action on HWY 11 happen, mainly with the section between Barrie and Orillia. I like to think that the HWY 11/HWY 12 reconstruction and interchange reconfigurations through Orillia and the HWY 11/Penetanguishene Road interchange reconfiguration project that is due to start in 2027 are setting up both ends of that segment of the road for the construction of a new freeway alignment.

As for the section between Orillia and Gravenhurst, it’s hard to say.

IIRC MTO's plans for 11 between Barrie and Orillia are an entirely new alignment north of the existing highway between Penetanguishene Rd and around Line 11. And MTO just spend a bunch of money over the last decade rehabilitating a lot of the overpasses east of Barrie, i.e. isn't planning to realign any time soon.

I don't think MTO has any imminent plans for that part of 11. It's getting closer to capacity (~50,000 AADT) but generally still doesn't have any actual traffic issues outside of long weekends. From what I remember the highway also isn't as unsafe as it appears and has accident rates only slightly higher than a regular freeway. They also haven't completed an EA in at least the last 20 years on the stretch.

The next big projects for 11 will likely be the realignment of the substandard curve in Gravenhurst and replacement of a few at-grade interchanges between Bracebridge and Huntsville to support growth in that area. That's all I really see happening in the next 10-15 years.

MTO's rebuild of Penetanguishene Rd is also not making any clear provisions for an ultimate widening..

https://hwy11-cr93.ca/wp-content/uploads/2024/07/Hwy11_93_PD-TESR_Nov17_2022_MH.pdf

 

[EYorker]

I noticed this odd bit on the QEW recently and got me wondering what the story might be here. There's a bit of a bump out on the Toronto bound QEW just east of Indian Rd. in Mississauga. S Sheridan Way also diverts around this bump out on the QEW. I was trying to figure out if there were ever ramps here to S Sheridan Way at one point, but going through historical imagery it doesn't seem to indicate there ever was a ramp here. Any ideas what this could've been for?

43°32'21.6"N 79°37'51.9"W

maps.app.goo.gl

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[ShonTron]

That looks like a 1960s-era truck inspection station but probably too small for later traffic volumes, and shifted west to Oakville near Fourth Line.

 

[nfitz]

I noticed this odd bit on the QEW recently and got me wondering what the story might be here. There's a bit of a bump out on the Toronto bound QEW just east of Indian Rd. in Mississauga. S Sheridan Way also diverts around this bump out on the QEW. I was trying to figure out if there were ever ramps here to S Sheridan Way at one point, but going through historical imagery it doesn't seem to indicate there ever was a ramp here. Any ideas what this could've been for?

43°32'21.6"N 79°37'51.9"W

maps.app.goo.gl

Street View · Google Maps

Explore a place in a more immersive way in Google Maps.

maps.app.goo.gl

View attachment 692929View attachment 692930View attachment 692931View attachment 692932

If I had a guess, I'd say a truck weigh/inspection station.

 

[EYorker]

That looks like a 1960s-era truck inspection station but probably too small for later traffic volumes, and shifted west to Oakville near Fourth Line.

If I had a guess, I'd say a truck weigh/inspection station.

I would've never guessed a truck inspection station given how small the area is combined with very short acceleration/deceleration lanes. Were most or all of the inspection stations of that era really that small?

 

[ShonTron]

I would've never guessed a truck inspection station given how small the area is combined with very short acceleration/deceleration lanes. Were most or all of the inspection stations of that era really that small?

Yeah. The QEW wasn't a fully grade-separated highway between Toronto and Niagara until the 1970s. Truck trailers weren't 53 feet long back then either.

 

[innsertnamehere]

continued rumblings of a RHVP/Linc upload:

https://twitter.com/x/status/1986869533991395574

 

[lenaitch]

continued rumblings of a RHVP/Linc upload:

https://twitter.com/x/status/1986869533991395574

View attachment 694119

On a related note, has anyone heard anything about the progress of uploading the Gardiner and DVP?