Roads: Ontario/GTA Highways Discussion

[Steve X]

If they toll the 401 alone at what, 5-10 cents a km? the amount of money it would generate would be huge.

And all our cost of living jumps 5-10% cause all our goods flow though that highway.

I don’t need that tax. No thanks. They might as well tax everyone a rate based on the proximity of living close to the 401.

This would just spoil all the traffic into the nearby roads slowing down transit.

A better way to tax is toll the non commercial usage of they exceed a certain mileage per month. So it’ll encourage people to find a job locally or move closer to work if they don’t want to take transit.

 

[afransen]

certain jurisdictions are starting to experiment with taxing electric vehicles for road funding as they don't pay gas taxes - Texas I believe has instituted a flat annual fee electric vehicle owners have to pay at plate renewal, for example.

I wouldn't be surprised if that ends up being the solution, where you have to pay a flat tax fee at plate renewal, perhaps based on mileage recorded since your last plate renewal.

Texas is doing it as a hostile measure to EVs. How popular will that be when there are enough EV drivers who vote?

 

[afransen]

And all our cost of living jumps 5-10% cause all our goods flow though that highway.

I don’t need that tax. No thanks. They might as well tax everyone a rate based on the proximity of living close to the 401.

This would just spoil all the traffic into the nearby roads slowing down transit.

A better way to tax is toll the non commercial usage of they exceed a certain mileage per month. So it’ll encourage people to find a job locally or move closer to work if they don’t want to take transit.

Well, the money wouldn't just disappear. It could be used to offset other taxes, reduce our deficit/debt, etc.

 

[W. K. Lis]

Instead of free parking, the province and municipality should charge a parking tax instead of the current "free" parking. The parking tax should then go towards the maintenance of the provincial highways (the provincial portion) and the city roads (the city portion). That includes street parking.

Why free parking is bad for everyone​

See link.

 

[afransen]

Instead of free parking, the province and municipality should charge a parking tax instead of the current "free" parking. The parking tax should then go towards the maintenance of the provincial highways (the provincial portion) and the city roads (the city portion). That includes street parking.

Why free parking is bad for everyone​

See link.

It would be progress to eliminate minimum parking requirements!

It would be rather perverse to require minimum parking then tax it to discourage its provision.

 

[lenaitch]

If they toll the 401 alone at what, 5-10 cents a km? the amount of money it would generate would be huge.

And tank our economy. We're already largely a branch plant and distribution/warehousing commercial economy as it is.

you will have cheats rolling back kms, etc., but it would be no different than today with cheats buying coloured gas which isn't taxed, or buying gas from indigenous stations. It would be niche and would be a very small percentage of people. I imagine most electric cars would have it digitally recorded as well, it wouldn't just be a matter of removing the plastic cover over the odometer and manually rolling it back.

It's a little bit more involved - it requires software and a willingness to commit a fraud; as compared to the rather more gray area of FN smokes and gas. Coloured fuel only involves distillates (diesel, furnace oil, etc.) and you can't buy it at the corner pump. But you are right, the numbers would be small. More typical and harder to regulate would be Level I and II home charging because they are less dedicated.

The only real purpose of the odometer reading upon permit renewal is for Carfax, etc. reporting. The MTO does seem to have some monitoring software. We got caught in it a couple of years ago when renewing a US-market vehicle. The Service Ontario agent entered miles instead of converting it to kilometers, which wouldn't have aligned with previous entries, and we got a letter - about a year later - saying we should attend an SO office and clarify the matter. The SO agent had a hard time acting like they cared.

Trying to come up with some electric avatar for the current petroleum-based road tax will be a conundrum.

 

[innsertnamehere]

it may be simpler just to implement a flat fee that is perhaps paid monthly per vehicle, but it doesn't achieve the same thing as gas taxes which generally increase with the more someone drives. A flat fee penalizes occasional drivers and makes mileage cheaper for high mileage drivers.

 

[Woodbridge_Heights]

It would be interesting to see a study on the effects of electric vehicles on revenues. Obviously there is a loss of gas tax revenues but there would be an increase in hydro usage. I wonder what the $ of revenue per 100 km driven comparison would be.

Yes hydro revenue goes into general coffers but while some would prefer that gas taxes be directed towards road works and maintenance I don't think that's the case ( I think they go to general revenues)

 

[Steve X]

it may be simpler just to implement a flat fee that is perhaps paid monthly per vehicle, but it doesn't achieve the same thing as gas taxes which generally increase with the more someone drives. A flat fee penalizes occasional drivers and makes mileage cheaper for high mileage drivers.

You mean increase the flat fee per vehicle from $120 a year (that is $10 a month) to some sustainably higher amount. That's the so called license plate sticker fee. That $60 additional TO annual license fee that David Miller slapped on got killed by Rob Ford and no one dares to slap one back on yet.

 

[lenaitch]

It would be interesting to see a study on the effects of electric vehicles on revenues. Obviously there is a loss of gas tax revenues but there would be an increase in hydro usage. I wonder what the $ of revenue per 100 km driven comparison would be.

Yes hydro revenue goes into general coffers but while some would prefer that gas taxes be directed towards road works and maintenance I don't think that's the case ( I think they go to general revenues)

Electricity consumption has HST applied. Road fuel has a federal excise tax+ federal carbon levy + HST + provincial 'road tax'. I'm not smart enough to draw a straight line between Kwhs and litres.

All government income goes into general revenue; taxes and fees. No ministry can hold or direct income for internal use. There might be some kind of dollar-for-dollar policy in relation to program fee generation vs. expenditure but it is just that - policy, and usually only valid for the duration of a press release.

There are a few, isolated circumstances, such as a gift shop, that can hold and manage their own income, but they are usually operated by an arm's length 'friends of' group.

 

[whydidimakethis]

 

[drum118]

The bridge over the Etobicoke Creek on the QEW is pour and working on the barrier wall. They have finally started to build the retaining wall for the off ramp. Another few months, the centre of the QEW will be back to being straight.

Port Credit Bridge
Lots of work taking place behind the sound barriers on the north side for the Credit River bridge. Core drilling taking place to the north existing bridge. Lots of trees cut down at Mississauga Rd interchange as well other work is taking place.

 

[afransen]

Is that your video? I notice it is made by a local (Ontarian).

 

[TRONto]

Ontario engineers raise red flags about Bradford Bypass

The Ontario Society of Professional Engineers said it isn’t calling for the cancellation of the project, but has concerns about its environmental impact. The group also sounded alarms about a “lack of data and evidence” backing the proposal.

www.nationalobserver.com

About the Bradford Bypass mostly

 

[TorontoBun]

On the topic of road usage charges, I’d believe that our license plates are going to come due for an overhaul into the digital age.
It would make sense for the plate to connect to the car via Bluetooth and read directly from the odometer or track the distance travelled on its own. The smart plate would then be able to “call home” to the MTO every so often to upload the latest reports. It should be able to send a flag if a tampered odometer reading is suspected as well. Since the smart shouldn’t take much energy, the plates can be powered wirelessly or at least run off a watch battery.

An added bonus would be that we should be able to ditch the archaic plate sticker system since every police force in the province should have ALPRs to validate the plates.

This is just a random idea I have in mind, so it’s not like they exist yet.