innsertnamehere
Superstar
hmm interesting way of doing it, if a bit low tech. Those permits are worth a lot in extra mobility, they could probably charge a lot more than they are right now for it.
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Roads: Ontario/GTA Highways Discussion
- Thread starter Haljackey
- Start date
afransen
Senior Member
The permits are $60/month and 1,350 are issued per month. So this entire program will raise $1m per year. Probably not even enough to pay for new signs, nevermind the bureaucrats to administer the scheme.
Haljackey
Active Member
Truth.
OPP in Chatham be like- 101's a speeding ticket
OPP in Chatham be like- 101's a speeding ticket
W. K. Lis
Superstar
The "revenue" has to come from "general revenue" of the province. Used to be the fuel tax would be the "source" of it. The federal and provincial taxes on gasoline were 10 cents per litre and 14.7 cents per litre, respectively, since the 1990s. Meanwhile, there has been something called inflation happening. See link.
Meanwhile, hybrid vehicles rely on using LESS gasoline. And electric vehicles do not use gasoline, and therefore do not pay the gasoline taxes. So the highway construction AND maintenance has to come from general revenue.
A toll should be collected from those who actually use the highways.
TRONto
Active Member
I was speaking to this limited toll they are introducing. It seems like the administration of the toll would surpass revenue from charging the for access to a HOT lane. As in, the toll would not even pay for the bureaucracy needed to run the toll.
lenaitch
Senior Member
Or require a 'road tax' meter to all charging stations (let the fury begin). Or mandate a wi-fi enabled OBD plug-in to record and report distance travelled.
afransen
Senior Member
Most people charge at home.
This will all be resolved with a per km registration tax (on both EV and non-EVs alike).
drum118
Superstar
The day will come when you pay by km driven as well when/where
lenaitch
Senior Member
That might be resolvable if they could jump on the wi-fi network used by smart meters. How it would be 'policed' would be the problem.
With a significant shift to online renewals, it would be cumbersome to manage. The government could require a pic of the odometer, but how do you verify the pic?
And it may well, so long as it is somehow 'revenue neutral' and there are different rates depending on whether transit/commuter options are available.
Edit: And resolve privacy issues.
kamira51
Active Member
If they toll the 401 alone at what, 5-10 cents a km? the amount of money it would generate would be huge.
Haljackey
Active Member
lol the 401 won't ever be tolled. Unless there's a proper bypass of the 401 (such as a highway north of London-K/W-Toronto-Ottawa) it ain't going to happen.
Public opposition would be stiff, and local/parallel rural roads would get a lot more congested.
Public opposition would be stiff, and local/parallel rural roads would get a lot more congested.
innsertnamehere
Superstar
certain jurisdictions are starting to experiment with taxing electric vehicles for road funding as they don't pay gas taxes - Texas I believe has instituted a flat annual fee electric vehicle owners have to pay at plate renewal, for example.
I wouldn't be surprised if that ends up being the solution, where you have to pay a flat tax fee at plate renewal, perhaps based on mileage recorded since your last plate renewal.
I wouldn't be surprised if that ends up being the solution, where you have to pay a flat tax fee at plate renewal, perhaps based on mileage recorded since your last plate renewal.
Haljackey
Active Member
Interesting. Not a bad idea. However you'd need the public to be honest on their km statements upon plate renewal- or have someone from Service Ontario go out and check it (and assume the reading hasn't been hacked/adjusted by the driver).
You could also get a 'charge' at a charging station depending on how much power you use.
-Of course this would not cover any home charging- that would be more difficult to track. There could be a meter installed in any home charging kits that track it however. You could bypass that by using a regular outlet. Some people have even jerryrigged a charger for their electric vehicles using the 240V outlets in your home for stuff like your oven and dryer, bypassing the need for a expensive home charging station. Some garages may have this outlet too or just make their own.
TRONto
Active Member
I think the simplest solution would be the best. No tolls, keeping track of KMs (adding complexity/bureaucracy) or taxing chargers (unfair vs home charging). Maybe a simple vehicle registration tax would do. Possibly separate classes for luxury, exotic and electric cars. Electric cars being the cheapest until they are a certain % of all cars.This might be the most politically palatable solution.
innsertnamehere
Superstar
you will have cheats rolling back kms, etc., but it would be no different than today with cheats buying coloured gas which isn't taxed, or buying gas from indigenous stations. It would be niche and would be a very small percentage of people. I imagine most electric cars would have it digitally recorded as well, it wouldn't just be a matter of removing the plastic cover over the odometer and manually rolling it back.