Roads: Ontario/GTA Highways Discussion

[Sunnyside]

I'd add Hamilton to Caledonia (what is now the escarpment rail trail). Would have been a game-changer for intra-Hamilton travel, including access to Hamilton Munro, if that was kept in place.

Second this. Would’ve been an extremely viable GO service to Nanticoke/Port Dover as well for beach-goers in Hamilton and the surrounding area. Could’ve been used for an air-rail link, and I have a contact that indicated it was considered in the YHM business case in the 80s but was obviously not implemented.

I’d also put the CN line that went along the beach (now the QEW) between Hamilton and Burlington. Redundant yes, but for transit would’ve radically sped up travel from east Hamilton/Stoney Creek to Burlington, offered a potential express route to Niagara for LSW by bypassing Hamilton, and generally upkept the strong relationship between Hamilton and Burlington.

These routes have a few things in common; they solved the geographic challenges of travel to/within Hamilton. There is now no mountain rail access, so half of the city effectively has no GO service. The beach line also was a far more direct route to Burlington if you lived even remotely east, as the existing rails (LSW) go far west and approach downtown from that direction. Now, one has to backtrack significantly if you are in East Hamilton, so driving via the QEW would probably beat the GO train by a significant margin. We have now forced car dependency as geography limits transit effectiveness in the hammer. we are actively forcing many to drive.

 

[ShonTron]

none of those would have been particularly busy lines. The only one I think was truly a mistake to remove is Barrie to Orillia / Washago. Port Perry, Uxbridge, etc are too small to service generally in a matter that would significantly impact automotive modal shares.

Lindsay *maybe* would have been nice to retain a rail connection, but even then, I'm doubtful.

Caledonia being removed comes closer to being useful as it services Hamilton Mountian and would have been the most useful line to provide service to Norfolk and Haldimand Counties, but even then beyond Caledonia populations become too dispersed to be really all that useful.

Sadly, Haldimand County is alone with Elgin County for not providing any sort of inter community transit in that part of Ontario. I could see a route from Port Dover to Hamilton via Caledonia being quite useful.

 

[Tim MacDonald]

Didn't see a thread on it but here are some recent photos of the QEW Dixie interchange work:

 

[innsertnamehere]

received this in my inbox. Looks like the preferred plan for the Bradford Bypass is going out for consultation on August 4th.

 

[KevinT]

I assume they see no need with the new Line 5 interchange just 3km up the road. Line 5 feeds into Canal Rd.

******
Upgrading of Hwy 11 between Barrie and Gravenhurst is long overdue. A lot of roadside businesses never recovered from the installation of the centre beam. Unless the do a realignment, many areas don't have enough room for a service road, particularly north of Severn Bridge and I don't think the 'turn-around interchanges' has been a fan favorite.

And I here I sit dreaming of the day that highway 6 between the 401 and the 403 would get the RIRO treatment that this piece of highway 11 has. It's a favourite with this fan.

 

[Morriston1986]

Big commitment to the 413 being announced, really wish they had the drive for the HWY 6 bypass at the 401.
Very cool thread lots of information in here

 

[Leo_Chan]

16th Avenue widening at Highway 404.

 

[Dan416]

Was in Stouffville the other day with a friend. Can someone explain to me how/why the 404 is wider into the middle of nowhere versus the 410 which goes down to only 2 lanes in each direction past Bovaird?

 

[innsertnamehere]

Was in Stouffville the other day with a friend. Can someone explain to me how/why the 404 is wider into the middle of nowhere versus the 410 which goes down to only 2 lanes in each direction past Bovaird?

Because the 404 goes up to Newmarket, Aurora, and East Gwillimbury which combined have over 200k people. Stouffville and Uxbridge are also served off it. Even the new part north of Newmarket is quite busy.

That, and the 410 desperately needs to be widened north of Queen to Mayfield.

The better question is why MTO is taking what feels like 7-8 years to extend the HOVs on the 404…

 

[afransen]

Because the 404 goes up to Newmarket, Aurora, and East Gwillimbury which combined have over 200k people. Stouffville and Uxbridge are also served off it. Even the new part north of Newmarket is quite busy.

That, and the 410 desperately needs to be widened north of Queen to Mayfield.

The better question is why MTO is taking what feels like 7-8 years to extend the HOVs on the 404…

What blows me away is how the widening of the 401 from Hurontario to Mississauga Road has been ongoing for a decade, and still going. Meaningwhile, widening to way past Milton has been zipping along pretty quickly.

 

[stevensontransit]

16th Avenue widening at Highway 404.
View attachment 417086
View attachment 417085

Nice. This 404 widening is expected to be finished next year, not this year.

 

[innsertnamehere]

What blows me away is how the widening of the 401 from Hurontario to Mississauga Road has been ongoing for a decade, and still going. Meaningwhile, widening to way past Milton has been zipping along pretty quickly.

Huh? The part from Hurontario to the Credit River was done in a few years and now they are doing the next part from the Credit to Milton, again, in a few years. Each are separate, albeit immediately adjacent projects and each didn’t take a particularly long time given the work involved.

The 404 widening is taking absolutely forever and it’s a relatively straightforward addition of a single HOV lane with minimal new structures needed, which is where time is always added.

 

[Leo_Chan]

The 404 widening is taking absolutely forever and it’s a relatively straightforward addition of a single HOV lane with minimal new structures needed, which is where time is always added.

Was it logical to widen Major Mackenzie Drive to Stouffville Road before Highway 407 and Major Mackenzie Drive? I also feel like it was a missed opportunity to widen the Highway 7 overpass to allow for sidewalk and bus lanes in both directions.

 

[ShonTron]

Was in Stouffville the other day with a friend. Can someone explain to me how/why the 404 is wider into the middle of nowhere versus the 410 which goes down to only 2 lanes in each direction past Bovaird?

With the major widening between the 401/403 and Queen Street, the traffic issues were cleared in the south end, but made much worse in the north end. The HOV lanes need to go to Bovaird, and a third general lane continuing from Bovaird to Mayfield. It was very poorly planned.

 

[Northern Light]

This is the highway/roadway thread, so I get it.

But at the same time, it irritates me to see these projects treated as if there aren't better uses of the money that would achieve better outcomes for people and the environment alike.

The 401 widening vs GO Kitchener and GO Milton upgrades to 2way, all-day, 30M or better service..........

The 410 widening vs Hurontario LRT to DT Brampton, the Queen Street BRT in Brampton and more Zum infrastructure and service......

It just feels to me as though its all discussed in a vacuum as if there's unlimited money to do everything, all at once, which there clearly is not....

And as if the new/expanded highway infra doesn't undermine future transit.

I don't want to engage in a endless battle on such things; nor am I narrowly commenting on any one project in isolation, in terms of merit.

Its the cumulative impact of not seeing things as a whole system; with a finite set of resources, and prioritizing accordingly.

Edit to Add:

Before some ask the invariable 'what would make me happy?'............a straight answer:

1) I want every potential transit and road project on the table at the same time and objectively prioritized for its positive/negative outcome for people and the environment.

2) Insofar as we accept highways are a less than ideal solution, I'd like to see every major highway project paired with at least one public transit investment of equal or greater value.