Roads: Ontario/GTA Highways Discussion

[Fritter]

Are there statistics on the traffic generators of vehicles on the 401 within the borders of the city of Toronto? I would be interested to know what percentage are users who just use 401 within Toronto, (ie Warden-Leslie, or Young-Keele etc) how many users are cross GTA users, (ie Pickering-Mississauga, Oshawa-Brampton etc) and how much traffic is thru traffic, (ie Kingston-London, or Montreal-Windsor)

 

[pstogios]

A lot of people only use the 401 to travel for two or three exists, and just moving some of them onto city streets would be a nightmare for traffic congestion.

This could be easily accommodated by a toll-by-distance system, like the 407ETR. The key would be identifying tolls that are high enough to properly regulate highway access, but not so high enough as to totally discourage local trips.

 

[11th]

This could be easily accommodated by a toll-by-distance system, like the 407ETR. The key would be identifying tolls that are high enough to properly regulate highway access, but not so high enough as to totally discourage local trips.

They can do inverse increments to discourage short trips (during peak periods).
Example: 0-2km is $1/km, 2-5km is $0.35/km, 5-10km $0.20/km, 10-20km $0.10/km, 20+km $0.05/km
A 30km trip will cost $5.55 and a 7km trip will cost $3.45.

 

[Jasmine18]

I think its unfair to toll the 401 when the 407 is already tolled

 

[W. K. Lis]

I think its unfair to toll the 401 when the 407 is already tolled

By reduced the gasoline tax, there would be less revenue available for provincial highway maintenance. Also, since hybrids use less gasoline and electric vehicles use none, there would be even less source of revenue from any gasoline taxes. So, time for more highway tolls, like they have in Europe.

 

[steveintoronto]

The mention "like they have in Europe" instigates the reactionaries.

Correctly state: "As they have in the US" and see how far their 'war-on-the-car' diatribes go.

There are many toll roads in the United States; as of 2006, toll roads exist in 35 states, with the majority of states without any toll roads being in the West and South. In 2015, there were 5,000 miles (8,000 km) of toll roads in the country.[1]

Some states have an RF tag that automatically bills the commuters account electronically for tolls. Examples of this are the E-ZPasselectronic toll collection system used on most toll bridges, toll tunnels, and toll roads in the eastern U.S., as far south as Virginia, as far north as Maine , and as far west as Illinois; California's FasTrak; Florida's SunPass; Kansas's K-Tag; Oklahoma's Pikepass; Texas's TxTag (and within Texas, Houston's EZ Tag and Dallas's TollTag); Louisiana's GeauxPass; and Georgia's Peach Pass and Cruise Card. Traffic in these special lanes can move near the speed limit with minimal slowing.

[...]

Interstate Highway System
By 1956, most limited-access highways in the eastern United States were toll roads. In that year, the federal Interstate Highway program was established, funding non-toll roads with 90% federal dollars and 10% state match, giving little incentive for states to expand their turnpike systems. Funding rules initially restricted collections of tolls on newly funded roadways, bridges, and tunnels. In some situations, expansion or rebuilding of a toll facility using Interstate Highway Program funding resulted in the removal of existing tolls. This occurred in Virginia on Interstate 64 at the Hampton Roads Bridge-Tunnel when a second parallel roadway to the regional 1958 bridge-tunnel was completed in 1976.

Since the completion of the initial portion of the interstate highway system, regulations were changed, and portions of toll facilities have been added to the system. Some states are again looking at toll financing for new roads and maintenance, to supplement limited federal funding. In some areas, new road projects have been completed and later maintained with public-private partnerships funded by tolls, also known as build-operate-transfer systems. One such public-private partnership was the constructions of the Pocahontas Parkway near Richmond, Virginia, which features a costly high level bridge over the shipping channel of the James River and connects Interstate 95 with Interstate 295 to the south of the city.

[...]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Toll_roads_in_the_United_States

 

[idc24]

 

[idc24]

Original highway 19 bridge structure completed in 1955

http://www.thekingshighway.ca/PHOTOS/Hwy401photos15.htm

 

[BurlOak]

The mention "like they have in Europe" instigates the reactionaries.

Correctly state: "As they have in the US" and see how far their 'war-on-the-car' diatribes go.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Toll_roads_in_the_United_States

It needs to be sold that those weasels with their hybrids and electric vehicles are trying to get out from paying their fare share of road taxes. By introducing pay-for-use pricing, we will close these loopholes.

I suspect that the eventual solution will be to monitor every vehicles travel patterns and charge per kilometre (more for travel during congested times). Forcing people off the safe freeways and onto City streets is quite counter productive.

How much would the "tolls" be? Assume car gets 10l/100km and current tax is 60 cents/l. Thus 10 / 100 x 60 = 6 cents /km. During congestion, this would be double or triple. Of course it would go along with a reduction in gas tax, or some type of gas tax rebate for those who pay the per km fees (i.e. a means of still charging visitor the gas tax to use the roads).

 

[steveintoronto]

It needs to be sold that those weasels with their hybrids and electric vehicles are trying to get out from paying their fare share of road taxes. By introducing pay-for-use pricing, we will close these loopholes.

I suspect that the eventual solution will be to monitor every vehicles travel patterns and charge per kilometre (more for travel during congested times). [...]

California's Road Usage Charge Pilot Program to Begin on July 1

The California Road Charge Pilot will be the nation's second road usage charge program. Unlike OReGO, which launched last July, it is a pilot program that will last nine months, but like the Oregon program, it is restricted to 5,000 volunteers.

January 30, 2016, 11am PST | Irvin Dawid

Volunteers who register for the California Road Charge Pilot will pay a small fee for each mile driven in-state while being credited for the gas taxes they pay if it follows the Oregon model, now known as OReGO,

The Oregon Department of Transportation (ODOT) conducted two pilot programs before launching the permanent program on July 1, 2015:

• Beginning April 2006 for 12 months and
• November 2012 to March 2013,

"The [California] pilot is an excellent opportunity to study road charging and should provide the Legislature the data it needs to better determine whether and how this idea might work in California," said Will Kempton, executive director of the California Transportation Commission (CTC), "the appointed body that released a report [111-page PDF] detailing the pilot program," write Jason Islas and Damien Newton for Streetsblog California.

As Kempton tells Caltrans Director Malcolm Dougherty in a video last year on the need for additional transportation funding in California, for a permanent road usage charge program, which he calls a mileage-based user fee, to go forward, it must be approved by the legislature—once again, paralleling the Oregon path. He stresses that if the pilot proves successful, the goal is for it to replace the gas tax, not be an additional charge that motorists pay.

OReGO charges drivers 1.5 cents per mile driven in-state. It credits them for the gas taxes they pay.

California Road Charge offers four options for volunteers to record their mileage which are listed under "Pioneer Change" on their webpage—the same page used for anyone interested in signing-up to be a volunteer:
[...]

https://www.planetizen.com/node/83510/californias-road-usage-charge-pilot-program-begin-july-1

Exploring A Road Charge for California
An efficient transportation system is critical to California’s economy and our quality of life. We need a long-term replacement for the outdated gas tax, as it cannot meet our transportation funding needs in the future. A year after being directed per Senate Bill (SB) 1077 to study a “road charge,” we are now taking the next steps with a pilot program that explores how a road charge can work in California.

Why is California Studying a Road Charge?

• We are considering a road charge as a potential replacement for the gas tax. The revenues currently available for highway and local roads are insufficient for preserving and maintaining road infrastructure, reducing congestion and improving the driving experience.
• As vehicle fuel efficiency increases, fewer gallons of gas are being purchased, creating a loss in revenue needed to maintain our highway system if the state were to continue with the gas tax.
• Despite the decline in gas tax revenue, more cars are using California’s roads and the wear and tear on roadways is increasing.
• California drivers are suffering the consequences of this extra wear and tear on their vehicles. According to TRIP, a national transportation research group, poor road conditions cost the average California driver $762 per year in operating and repair costs.

[...]

https://www.californiaroadchargepilot.com/about/

California looks at dumping gas tax for per-mile fee as cars use less fuel
BY TONY BIZJAK

tbizjak@sacbee.com
December 08, 2017 03:55 AM

Updated December 09, 2017 09:23 AM

Weeks into a new gas tax hike, California transportation officials said Thursday they are studying ways to charge drivers based on how many miles they drove since their last fill-up rather than the amount of fuel they use.

The problem? California drivers are choosing such fuel-efficient cars that the state fears it will be deprived of enough road construction revenues in the long run.

The Caltrans study – the California Road Charge Pilot Program report – is billed as a way for the state to move from its longstanding but outmoded pump tax to a system where drivers pay based on their odometer readings.

Caltrans Deputy Director Carrie Pourvahidi said the state will send out a request early next year to technology companies for ideas on a simple communication system at gas stations or electric charging stations that can instantly tell how many miles the car has driven.
[...]

https://www.sacbee.com/news/local/article188694739.html

Electric and autonomous cars will change way California pays for roads
OCRegister-Jun. 16, 2018
Senate Bill 1, California's 12-cent-per-gallon gasoline tax increase, ... Californiacompleted a road charge pilot program in 2017 based on a fee ...

 

[BurlOak]

Original highway 19 bridge structure completed in 1955

http://www.thekingshighway.ca/PHOTOS/Hwy401photos15.htm

I'm not sure what you are trying to show - so I will add some context.

The original bridge was built in 1955 It was a T-Beam Rigid frame with single span of 33m. It carried 2 lanes of 401 in each direction, plus a speed change lane in each direction carrying the cloverleaf ramps. In the early 1990's, the interchange was reconfigured to a diamond (that is there now). This allowed an extra lane in each direction to be added (i.e. 3 lanes in each direction). In 2017, the bridge was replaced with a 2 span (2@38m) steel box girder bridge.

Interesting thing here was the use of rapid construction. This method was used once before on Westminster Road, just west of London. Highway 19 was closed for about 2 months. In that time, the old bridge was demolished (requiring and overnight closure of 401 - but a single lane of 401 could actually use the diamond interchange to still get through), piers were constructed (concrete caissons with cast in place concrete columns). Abutments consisted of steel H piles and precast abutment components. Before this even started, they laid out 3 girders on the SE quadrant and cast a concrete deck. When they finished with the abutments and piers, the 401 was again closed and these roughly 100 - 120 tonne girders with deck where moved from the SE location to rest on their piers and abutments. Once placed, 401 was reopened. Closure strips of concrete were cast to connect these 3 girder/deck "supermodules" both transversely and longitudinally to create a continuous bridge (it was also integral abutment).

The other thing of note was the use of A1010 steel for the girders, a sort of low grade stainless steel with about 11% Chromium (stainless is minimum 12% and often up to 25%). This had been used in Oregon and MTO did it for Speed River and 401 near Cambridge. MTO had found that the Weathering Steel (also called Atmospheric Corrosion Resistant, ACR, steel and formerly by the patented name of Corten) would still corrode above heavy traffic (and in very moist conditions) and rust sheets would form and may require maintenance to remove or it may fall on traffic. This bridge has a more silvery look than the other brown rust coloured ACR ones.

http://www.thekingshighway.ca/PHOTOS/Hwy401photos2.htm
http://www.thekingshighway.ca/PHOTOS/Hwy401photos15.htm
https://www.google.ca/maps/@43.0280...IjulleEA!2e0!5s20170901T000000!7i13312!8i6656

 

[TransitBart]

I'm not sure what you are trying to show - so I will add some context.

The first time I read this on my phone, I thought he was adding some CONTEMPT. I thought that was perfect for UrbanToronto.

But when I got home and I collected my marbles, I realized it was CONTEXT and enjoyed the post.

 

[steveintoronto]

The other thing of note was the use of A1010 steel for the girders, a sort of low grade stainless steel with about 11% Chromium (stainless is minimum 12% and often up to 25%). This had been used in Oregon and MTO did it for Speed River and 401 near Cambridge. MTO had found that the Weathering Steel (also called Atmospheric Corrosion Resistant, ACR, steel and formerly by the patented name of Corten) would still corrode above heavy traffic (and in very moist conditions) and rust sheets would form and may require maintenance to remove or it may fall on traffic. This bridge has a more silvery look than the other brown rust coloured ACR ones.

Now THAT is profound! Stainless, save for some special grades, can be an absolute nightmare to work with, but the end result justifies the cost and added labour. If you're in for a Pound, you might as well be in for a Pound and a Quarter, and have something that lasts far longer, and actually saves money in the long term. ACR is corroding in a number of places it isn't supposed to do, not least buildings where it's being used raw (unfinished), the claim being how durable and weather resistant it is. Perhaps to distilled water it is, to anything off of neutral pH it isn't.

Not that SS is impervious, it isn't, but the right grade and quality is vastly preferable:

Journal of Constructional Steel Research
Volume 66, Issue 10, October 2010, Pages 1174-1185

[...]
Abstract
Three studies, undertaken to investigate various issues related to the corrosion of weathering steel highway structures, are presented in this article. The first study examines the effects of corrosion products and pitting on weathering steel plate thickness measurements obtained using a standard ultrasonic gauge. The second evaluates the potential of several zinc-based coatings, including metallizing and zinc tape, as a way of protecting elements of existing corroded structures. The third study comprises a series of reliability analyses of composite weathering steel overpass structures with uniform corrosion occurring at various locations and rates. Based on this work, it is concluded that the examined coatings offer an effective way of improving the corrosion performance of weathering steel structures. From the reliability analysis study, it is concluded that corrosion can cause significant reductions in the service lives of weathering steel highway structures. The analysis results are seen to be most sensitive to the modelled corrosion conditions. Plate thickness measurements are seen to be vital for the assessment of weathering steel highway structures, due to the high uncertainty associated with the corrosion rate.
[...]

https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0143974X10001239

 

[ShonTron]

I just went on a road trip to Ottawa and back. Normally, I'll take the train, but this time, I needed the flexibility - it also allowed me to visit a high school friend in Lanark County.

On the way there, I took Highway 401 to 416 - the standard choice. It was mostly fine, and the extension of the three-lane section of Highway 401 past Cobourg (a few kilometres east of Highway 45) does make a difference, though the 401 just seems busier than ever, particularly with truck traffic, and traffic simply doesn't filter like it once did. I used to make trips to Belleville a few times a year, so this trip, and a trip to Kingston a few weeks ago - have reinforced my perceptions. Going to 6 lanes between Cobourg and Prescott will be very expensive, but the short three-lane section in Kingston helped break things up, and it's looking like it will go all the way to Highway 15 now with work underway east of Montreal Road. Another 6-lane section through Trenton and Belleville would probably be my priority, along with a complete reconstruction of the Highway 62 cloverleaf in Belleville. Given the land constraints, perhaps a SPUI makes the most sense there, or a mini collector-express system for the 62 and 37 interchanges.

Highway 7 headed back, all the way to Peterborough. It's a really pleasant drive, with very few towns along the route, a few areas where it's quite pretty (in the Canadian Shield) and there are very few trucks. But it needs a few more passing lanes, particularly between Highways 38 and 41. A slower camper going 80 km/h or a guy hauling a U-Haul trailer can get a tail of 30 cars long behind them, with a few yahoos passing really dangerously to get around the line.

Once west of Madoc, the passing lanes are more frequent, and it's a good easy drive.

 

[gweed123]

I just went on a road trip to Ottawa and back. Normally, I'll take the train, but this time, I needed the flexibility - it also allowed me to visit a high school friend in Lanark County.

I've driven back and forth between Ottawa and the GTA a lot, and taken pretty much every route combination available, and I agree with your assessment.

On the way there, I took Highway 401 to 416 - the standard choice. It was mostly fine, and the extension of the three-lane section of Highway 401 past Cobourg (a few kilometres east of Highway 45) does make a difference, though the 401 just seems busier than ever, particularly with truck traffic, and traffic simply doesn't filter like it once did. I used to make trips to Belleville a few times a year, so this trip, and a trip to Kingston a few weeks ago - have reinforced my perceptions. Going to 6 lanes between Cobourg and Prescott will be very expensive, but the short three-lane section in Kingston helped break things up, and it's looking like it will go all the way to Highway 15 now with work underway east of Montreal Road. Another 6-lane section through Trenton and Belleville would probably be my priority, along with a complete reconstruction of the Highway 62 cloverleaf in Belleville. Given the land constraints, perhaps a SPUI makes the most sense there, or a mini collector-express system for the 62 and 37 interchanges.

The 401 needs to be 6 lanes between at least Cobourg and Belleville. I've started to avoid that stretch when driving to Ottawa because it's too unreliable. One minor fender bender in Trenton and you're backed up to almost Cobourg. As for the mini collector-express in Belleville, I completely agree. That interchange is nowhere near modern highway design standards.

I don't think it needs 6 lanes all the way to Prescott immediately though, there are other projects that I'd like to see that money spent on (more on that below).

Highway 7 headed back, all the way to Peterborough. It's a really pleasant drive, with very few towns along the route, a few areas where it's quite pretty (in the Canadian Shield) and there are very few trucks. But it needs a few more passing lanes, particularly between Highways 38 and 41. A slower camper going 80 km/h or a guy hauling a U-Haul trailer can get a tail of 30 cars long behind them, with a few yahoos passing really dangerously to get around the line.

Once west of Madoc, the passing lanes are more frequent, and it's a good easy drive.

I think one of the best ways to relieve the 401 would be to extend the 400-series Highway 7 west to Perth, and extend the 115 east to about Norwood. Those two extensions alone would tip the scale and make 115+7 the faster route to Ottawa, in addition to already being the shorter route. That change would cut a lot of the passenger traffic off the 401, potentially pushing a lot of 6-laning further into the future.