pstogios
Senior Member
This makes no sense. If induced demand on this stretch of the Gardiner is true, then as you expand from 2 to 3 lanes, traffic congestion wouldn't decrease, it would increase. But we see the opposite.
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This makes no sense. If induced demand on this stretch of the Gardiner is true, then as you expand from 2 to 3 lanes, traffic congestion wouldn't decrease, it would increase. But we see the opposite.
LNahid2000
Senior Member
People usually have to travel in 2 directions, so because eastbound is 2 lanes and westbound is 3 lanes, more people have not started driving because of the bottleneck eastbound. Therefore, the westbound trip has become much faster.
nfitz
Superstar
Agreed - but if we'd believe andrewpmk then the cars would be on other roads, or just backed up on the Gardiner for PM peak - and back on the Gardiner for the AM peak. But they aren't, thus proving him wrong (as usual).
W. K. Lis
Superstar
Instead of cars, could be... horses?
Juan_Lennon416
Senior Member
A few people that I have spoken to who live by the elevated portion of the Gardiner said they don't mind it
darth_freeman
Active Member
Induced demand: If we close the Gardiner people will just move to the Yonge Subway - no capacity issues there!
And just because you can easily argue "induced demand", doesn't mean it's good. If we induce someone to take the 1 hour GO Train is this really an improvement over having them drive 20 mins?
And just because you can easily argue "induced demand", doesn't mean it's good. If we induce someone to take the 1 hour GO Train is this really an improvement over having them drive 20 mins?
LNahid2000
Senior Member
Because the Yonge subway goes in the same direction as the Gardiner :facepalm:
nfitz
Superstar
Which GO Train to downtown in peak can be replaced by a 20-minute drive?
darth_freeman
Active Member
Think GO Train + subway/bus/walk etc. The GO Train only goes to Union. Driving is much more flexible.
If you really need examples where driving would be considerably faster than taking transit then I can't help you.
darth_freeman
Active Member
Snarky comment aside...the point is that the Gardiner can't be removed if no alternatives are in place.
Like how that study that showed there would be only a 3 minute delay heading into downtown if the Gardiner is removed (assuming GO RER, Waterfront LRT, DRL, etc. etc. are already built).
nfitz
Superstar
You said 60-minute GO Train - goalposts are oving. Still can't think of a trip to Union plus either walk, subway, or bus that's a 20-minute drive. Unless you do something odd, and start at Danforth, go to Union, take the subway to York Mills, and bus to Don Mills - but even that's closer to a 30-minute drive in AM peak.
60 minutes versus 20 minutes to Union?
I'm hard-pressed to think of any decent example. Sure, there maybe xamples that both start and end in the 'burbs - but that's really not what we are talking.
darth_freeman
Active Member
Would it make you feel better if I instead compared a 50 minute GO Train/transit effort to a 30 minute drive? Do you still not realize the point I am getting at?
nfitz
Superstar
I have no idea your point. I think inducing someone to take a 50 minute transit trip over a 30-minute drive is a very good thing. Especially if it includes a 15-minute walk - more spare time, and exercise to boot!
Skeezix
Senior Member
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I certainly don't understand your point either.
LNahid2000
Senior Member
Time isn't the only thing that matters when deciding between transit and driving. I know many people who take transit instead of driving even though it takes much longer because it's less stressful, results in 50 minutes of productive time instead of 30 minutes of unproductive time, they can sleep on the train, etc.