Roads: Gardiner Expressway catch-all, incl. Hybrid Design (2015-onwards)

[J Bacon]

That's the point that I don't think you're understanding, there is fundamentally no more space for supply side capacity issues. That's before you consider the social and environmental cost of driving. Unless you want all roads and no buildings. So the issues that we are currently focused on is people movement and people throughput, of which general purpose lanes are the least efficient at.

I think the point is that if you're not going to expand roads fine, but don't remove road capacity in a growing region - that's probably where the anger starts.
You can build transit and also maintain road capacity.

Also when considering these scenarios the environmental cost of driving should be updated to assume that the majority of cars on the road will be electric.

 

[evandyk]

Road capacity is typically increased when you convert lanes from car lanes to more efficient modes of transportation like bikes and buses.

 

[innsertnamehere]

That's the point that I don't think you're understanding, there is fundamentally no more space for supply side capacity issues. That's before you consider the social and environmental cost of driving. Unless you want all roads and no buildings. So the issues that we are currently focused on is people movement and people throughput, of which general purpose lanes are the least efficient at.

like most topics I think there is room for a good bit of nuance here.

Streets like Bloor St downtown aren't really able to accommodate cycling lanes without whacking a car lane, correct.

But streets like Eglinton? The City literally had detailed plans drawn up showing protected cycling lanes on the street with 4-lanes of car traffic maintained. Metrolinx built over the Crosstown stations to that design. Now that it's the City's responsibility to fill in the gaps, they changed their mind are making Eglinton 2-lanes instead with full-time curbside parking.

Most of the suburban areas of the city have significant right of way width to accommodate separated, high quality cycling facilities as well as 4 car lanes. Look at Finch - Metrolinx built a new LRT and protected cycling lanes across the corridor without removing lanes. Toronto just opts to cut auto lanes because it's cheaper.

 

[innsertnamehere]

Road capacity is typically increased when you convert lanes from car lanes to more efficient modes of transportation like bikes and buses.

There is a difference between theoretical capacity and median travel times / actual throughput.

A street like Bloor St W through central downtown likely had overall throughput increased with bike lanes. I would be surprised if Eglinton Avenue or Bloor in Etobicoke is seeing overall higher throughput though as cyclist volumes are significantly lower.

There are ways to do infrastructure right, and I think there is some valid criticism of the City right now where their response to basically any infrastructure question is "cut it to two lanes". The City's plans for roads like Eglinton, Parkside, and especially Park Lawn are emblematic of this, I think.

To be clear I think Ford's bike lane ban is also ridiculous. There is room for a lot of nuance here.

Generally I think the City needs to shift from "quick win" cycling projects involving mostly paint and removing car lanes to more expensive, but higher quality projects which add bike lanes to roads in suburban areas while generally maintaining significant automotive capacity as well. Bloor West Village for example could accommodate dedicated cycling infrastructure while maintaining 4 lanes, for example. So could Eglinton. Parkside could see improved pedestrian infrastructure and a dedicated cycling path routed through High Park adjacent to the road. Etc.

 

[J Bacon]

Road capacity is typically increased when you convert lanes from car lanes to more efficient modes of transportation like bikes and buses.

So then you'd have even more capacity by all metrics, not just road capacity in terms of bodies by maintaining existing lanes, putting transit above or below the road and also adding fully separate bike lanes.

 

[J Bacon]

Toronto just opts to cut auto lanes because it's cheaper.

Cheaper, easier and faster to appease everyone and please no one.

 

[bearcat]

There is a difference between theoretical capacity and median travel times / actual throughput.

A street like Bloor St W through central downtown likely had overall throughput increased with bike lanes. I would be surprised if Eglinton Avenue or Bloor in Etobicoke is seeing overall higher throughput though as cyclist volumes are significantly lower.

There are ways to do infrastructure right, and I think there is some valid criticism of the City right now where their response to basically any infrastructure question is "cut it to two lanes". The City's plans for roads like Eglinton, Parkside, and especially Park Lawn are emblematic of this, I think.

To be clear I think Ford's bike lane ban is also ridiculous. There is room for a lot of nuance here.

Generally I think the City needs to shift from "quick win" cycling projects involving mostly paint and removing car lanes to more expensive, but higher quality projects which add bike lanes to roads in suburban areas while generally maintaining significant automotive capacity as well. Bloor West Village for example could accommodate dedicated cycling infrastructure while maintaining 4 lanes, for example. So could Eglinton. Parkside could see improved pedestrian infrastructure and a dedicated cycling path routed through High Park adjacent to the road. Etc.

Unfortunately I feel it all comes down to cost. It costs money to demolish and then build new curbs and to move streetlights and hydro poles. From what I understand this is only done when a road is due for major reconstruction due to age, and at that point "higher quality" bike infrastructure can be added.

In my opinion, if the city only did "higher quality" bike infrastructure most of the bike lane network we have now would not exist as they city would not have had the money to implement it.

I am sure whoever is in charge of planning cycling projects in the city also wants "higher quality" infrastructure, but there is only so much money to spend.

It would be wonderful if Doug Ford perhaps announced funding for such "higher quality" bike lanes that do not take away automotive road capacity along with his ban.

 

[zang]

Considering Toronto has plans currently in the works for Yonge and other main streets that *do* take lanes (rather, parking 80% of the time), or even the car-free area planned for Yonge & Dundas, I don’t see the city just going along. And it’ll be yet another court case for the province to spend millions just to lose.

My only hope is that the eventual election that any party spends money on ads to tally up all the court challenges and their costs and losses. The value surpasses that of the gas plant scandal many times over at this point.

 

[kotsy]

The final sections of girder supports have been installed and they've started installing forms for the guardrails.

 

[Civdis]

The final sections of girder supports have been installed and they've started installing forms for the guardrails.

View attachment 599226View attachment 599227

wow, is it just me or does it look like the extended hours for construction have really sped this thing up!

 

[thaivic]

wow, is it just me or does it look like the extended hours for construction have really sped this thing up!

It's not just you, it has sped up with the extra hours. Before they started with the extra hours they were already a couple of months ahead of schedule. They should be doing the switchover sometime in November.

 

[generalcanada]

Gardiner Expressway construction four months ahead of schedule

The current work phase involves replacing 700 metres of the roadway’s structure and is expected to finish by April 2026.

toronto.citynews.ca

4 months ahead of the original schedule or 4 months ahead of the moved up date for 1 year earlier?

 

[innsertnamehere]

Gardiner Expressway construction four months ahead of schedule

The current work phase involves replacing 700 metres of the roadway’s structure and is expected to finish by April 2026.

toronto.citynews.ca

4 months ahead of the original schedule or 4 months ahead of the moved up date for 1 year earlier?

Ahead of the 1 year earlier schedule:

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/toronto/gardiner-construction-ahead-schedule-timeline-1.7348331#:~:text=The%20work%20was%20initially%20forecast,full%20year%20to%20April%202026.&text=It's%20now%20possible%20the%20work%20could%20done%20even%20sooner%2C%20officials%20said.

The work was initially forecast to be finished by April 2027. But in July, the province announced roughly $73 million in funding to ensure construction could continue 24/7, moving up the expected completion date by a full year to April 2026. It's now possible the work could done even sooner, officials said.

"That is something to celebrate," said Toronto Mayor Olivia Chow at a news conference Wednesday night.

So that puts it at a January 2026 completion now.. and possibly sooner.

 

[kotsy]

They've paved most of the work area since my last update.

They're also rebuilding the retaining wall for the ramp up to the elevated section being worked on.

Lamp post installation should start soon and that'll be it for this phase.

 

[Lyphe]

Great updates and ty!
Feels like this project continues to move ahead of schedule since they moved to 24/7 work.