mrgrieves
Active Member
in a city as busy as Toronto, dedicated turn signals seems like the way to do. no turn signals seems appropriate in rural or other low volume areas
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Road Safety & Vision Zero Plan
- Thread starter salsa
- Start date
Obsidian
Active Member
Driver plows thought TTC shelter at Warden at Boem (north of Lawrence) around 5:33PM today.
crs1026
Superstar
My personal experience with left-turns is - especially in Toronto, given the volume of traffic, and especially on 4-lane roads - it demands a driver's full concentration just to monitor oncoming cars to watch for a safe gap to make the turn. This is especially difficult if (as shown in the video posted above) there is a large vehicle facing the driver that is also trying to turn left - it blocks the view of the other lane, making a left turn extremely risky. It's also common for oncoming drivers to change lanes on the fly (and at full speed) to get around the vehicle that has stopped to make a left turn.... so the right lane may be clear one moment but suddenly is no longer clear.
And only then, when the driver is certain they have a clear gap in oncoming traffic, do they turn their attention to the pedestrian crossing.... and there's a whole second guessing game and potential for surprises. And, with the traffic gap potentially closing, there is an impulse control exercise to not gun it and try to get through, regardless of pedestrian presence or safety. With time pressure both in terms of wanting to not have to wait another cycle, and potentially causing impatience in following drivers.
The perfectionist might argue that drivers must always be patient, and must constantly shift focus - so back and forth between oncoming vehicles and the pedestrian crosswalk - and while I agree, drivers are human, and that limits things.
All of which says to me - left turn lanes are the preferable design, where space is available..... and discrete left turn arrows (with pedestrians not having "walk" rights) in the cycle is also preferable, if that can be achieved without creating backups.
- Paul
And only then, when the driver is certain they have a clear gap in oncoming traffic, do they turn their attention to the pedestrian crossing.... and there's a whole second guessing game and potential for surprises. And, with the traffic gap potentially closing, there is an impulse control exercise to not gun it and try to get through, regardless of pedestrian presence or safety. With time pressure both in terms of wanting to not have to wait another cycle, and potentially causing impatience in following drivers.
The perfectionist might argue that drivers must always be patient, and must constantly shift focus - so back and forth between oncoming vehicles and the pedestrian crosswalk - and while I agree, drivers are human, and that limits things.
All of which says to me - left turn lanes are the preferable design, where space is available..... and discrete left turn arrows (with pedestrians not having "walk" rights) in the cycle is also preferable, if that can be achieved without creating backups.
- Paul
Northern Light
Superstar
In a report to next week's Infrastructure and Environment Ctte, in addition to various cycling projects, this year's Missing sidewalk program is outlined. Its substantial.
From the above:
Here is a map showing the above as well as the first cycling projects up for approval this year (many more are coming)
From the above:
Here is a map showing the above as well as the first cycling projects up for approval this year (many more are coming)
lenaitch
Senior Member
There a technique that is never taught, and quite frankly I don't recall where I read about it, called the 'z-turn' for gaining better visibility around a large vehicle in the facing lane. Normally, if you stick the nose of your vehicle out into the oncoming lane to see if it clear, by the time you can see, several feet of your vehicle is already in the way. With a z-turn, you nose out then turn back in, making the left side of your vehicle parallel to the lane. This way, almost none of your vehicle is beyond your sightline.
The "where space is available" is the challenge. Older intersections with only one or two lanes might not have the space for dedicated lanes without robbing from something else. Most major roads in suburbia are newer and had more space to work with.
crs1026
Superstar
Interesting… I suspect I have unconsciously done that, as a matter of inches mostly. If it works, great - but I would be very fearful of getting caught over the center line somehow, and if something led to a collision….. it would be very hard to escape some level of being at fault.
Lots of room needed, I’m sure.
- Paul
innsertnamehere
Superstar
Kensington Market Safe Streets
Required road reconstruction and watermain replacement in Kensington Market presents a once-in-a-lifetime opportunity to redesign the streets in a way that puts pedestrians first, while supporting local businesses. After extensive feedback from local stakeholders and the public, the City is...
www.toronto.ca
The city has updated the Kensington Safe Streets page, now more or less proposing to pedestrianize the main blocks of the market area minus continued vehicular access to local laneways (which should be extremely low traffic - to the tune of a handful of vehicles a day).
Cambry Ardship
New Member
I suppose that's somewhat positive, but it's ridiculous that it took them this long to make this plan, which is the bare minimum acceptable.
The previous plan last summer was a joke.
The previous plan last summer was a joke.
Northern Light
Superstar
Kensington Market Safe Streets
Required road reconstruction and watermain replacement in Kensington Market presents a once-in-a-lifetime opportunity to redesign the streets in a way that puts pedestrians first, while supporting local businesses. After extensive feedback from local stakeholders and the public, the City is...
The city has updated the Kensington Safe Streets page, now more or less proposing to pedestrianize the main blocks of the market area minus continued vehicular access to local laneways (which should be extremely low traffic - to the tune of a handful of vehicles a day).
Sharing from the above:
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More than 50 parking spaces removed from on-street
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Survey here: https://s.cotsurvey.chkmkt.com/KensingtonSafeStreets-phase3
Construction 2024-25
I'm not going to post all the Plan panels but I will post Augusta:
evandyk
Senior Member
Am I missing something? If you make the T at Baldwin and Augusta pedestrian only, what happens to all the cars that flow in there?
innsertnamehere
Superstar
The only cars in the light blue areas would be those accessing the little lane ways. Some of those light blue areas would have literally maybe 2 vehicle trips a day, they are better to be thought of as “pedestrianized with local private property access”. It’s not an uncommon approach in Europe.
The real question is if the city takes enough design measures to make sure random cars aren’t going down there regardless. They will be no stopping zones, but somehow I suspect many Ubers won’t care if their gps tells them to drop passengers off at the end of the area..
jys
Active Member
Young Drivers of Canada teaches it as the S Maneuver.
junctionist
Senior Member
Pedestrianized "local traffic only" streets are the most practical way of pedestrianizing areas while addressing locals' fears about losing vehicular access to their properties and in terms of business deliveries. Local traffic and deliveries are permitted, but drivers must drive at a walking speed and yield to pedestrians in the pedestrian zone.
The city and province should figure out a regulatory framework/best design practices for pedestrianized "local traffic" only streets, whether it's through collapsible bollards, permit stickers on the vehicle's windshield with camera enforcement, or other means. I'm not a big fan of automated barrier gates because they tend to be barriers for pedestrian and cyclist flow and ugly.
Just putting up a "local traffic only" sign for a pedestrianized street isn't going to work unless there's frequent enforcement, which is unlikely.
afransen
Senior Member
Signage ought to work if there are modal filters preventing through traffic and no general access parking.
W. K. Lis
Superstar
Signs are useless when the streets are designed for the "safety" of speeders. They don't have to be so wide. If a moving van or garage truck still has to move through them, automobiles can still pass on them on the opposite side of the street.