whydidimakethis
Active Member
I think if our traffic signals are smart enough they should be able to detect if no oncoming traffic is coming and provide a quick left turn phase during the straight through phase.
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Road Safety & Vision Zero Plan
- Thread starter salsa
- Start date
W. K. Lis
Superstar
evandyk
Senior Member
Technically they're right, since you're not supposed to enter an intersection unless you know you can clear it before the light turns red, and that's basically impossible in Toronto if you're turning left because of oncoming traffic running the reds.
W. K. Lis
Superstar
nfitz
Superstar
Knowing you can clear it, doesn't mean taking into allowance those that run yellows and reds.
lenaitch
Senior Member
Mmm, perhaps, but I'm not convinced. Coupled with being informally told that some schools are teaching it this way.
With the greatest of respect to the Alberta I disagree with a couple of their 'incorrect' movements.
That's not exactly how the legislation reads.
145 (1) The council of a municipality may by by-law prohibit a driver or street car operator approaching, at an intersection, a traffic control signal showing a circular green or green arrow indication from entering the intersection unless traffic in front of him or her is moving in a manner that would reasonably lead him or her to believe he or she can clear the intersection before the signal indication changes to a circular red indication. R.S.O. 1990, c. H.8, s. 145 (1).
Idem
(2) A by-law passed under subsection (1) does not apply to a driver or street car operator who enters an intersection for the purpose of turning to the right or left into an intersecting highway and signals his or her intention to make the turn prior to entering the intersection.
There is a difference between "know" and "reasonably lead . . . to believe". Entering a controlled intersection with the intention of turning left, and having no other vehicles in front of you, it is reasonable to assume that you can clear the intersection. Otherwise, left turns would essentially be illegal in all intersections that don't have dedicated left turn signals (although no doubt many would support that) which of itself is unreasonable.
evandyk
Senior Member
Nobody with experience driving in Toronto could reasonably believe that oncoming traffic is going to stop for a yellow light and give them a chance to turn left while the light is still yellow. If you were following this law you'd only move into the intersection when you see an upcoming gap in the traffic.
Of course, I realize that this is not how anyone does it, but it's a reasonable thing to teach new drivers.
Of course, I realize that this is not how anyone does it, but it's a reasonable thing to teach new drivers.
whydidimakethis
Active Member
I don't think that's a good idea, that would basically only allow one car to get through per phase. At least now you could squeeze in two or maybe even three if oncoming traffic cooperates.
lenaitch
Senior Member
It is not just a Toronto/GTA phenomena.
nfitz
Superstar
In most places in Toronto, I find traffic stops on yellow - it's seldom I see traffic blowing through on a red - and there's always a decent delay here before lights go red in one direction, and green in the other.
As a pedestrian, I seldom trap a turning car in the intersection (as a driver I always let them clear). If I do trap them, it's because they are clueless, or they actually entered the intersection on red.
innsertnamehere
Superstar
Other than advance lefts, which people absolutely push the hell out of.
I also find people are more likely to push reds in the suburbs where large intersections have exceptionally long signal cycles, and where the time penalty for missing the light can be several minutes.
crs1026
Superstar
We hear a lot more data about speed cameras than red light cameras, but in fact there is data available on the City's Open Portal.
A quick sort of the data for 2022 established that the top 5 locations based on number of offenses fined were
These 5 locations averaged 2568.4 offenses per camera, versus an average for the city's 289 cameras of 449.5 offenses per camera for the year. (some cameras may have not been in service for the full year, however)
I haven't played with the data or tried to sort central city from suburbs, but the theory that offences happen mostly in the suburbs may have some support from data.
My personal anecdotal observation is that it happens most often wherever impatience presents itself.
- Paul
A quick sort of the data for 2022 established that the top 5 locations based on number of offenses fined were
These 5 locations averaged 2568.4 offenses per camera, versus an average for the city's 289 cameras of 449.5 offenses per camera for the year. (some cameras may have not been in service for the full year, however)
I haven't played with the data or tried to sort central city from suburbs, but the theory that offences happen mostly in the suburbs may have some support from data.
My personal anecdotal observation is that it happens most often wherever impatience presents itself.
- Paul
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evandyk
Senior Member
I think it's actually rare for a light to turn red without a car in the intersection unless traffic is really light.
nfitz
Superstar
It's rare they don't clear though by the green in the oncoming direction.
Dan416
Senior Member
I much prefer dedicated left turn signals. Many of them in Mississauga anyway you can only turn left on a green left arrow, otherwise you need to wait till the next one. It's a bit inconvenient but it takes the guesswork out of making your left. I think those are mostly when you have the dual left turn lanes though.