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Rail: Ontario-Quebec High Speed Rail Study

khristopher:

Lots of things have been proposed and discussed surrounding high speed rail. But at the moment none of these ideas are more than that. It seems that any time a public figure mentions high speed rail there is an article published around it, which is not a bad thing since it shows there is an interest, but it can lead people to believe that there is more taking place than there actually is. At this point in the debate, anything that is said should be taken lightly and it is pointless to obsess over details because there is no plan in place right now.
 
RedRocket191 said:
It's greener when you compare it to the alternative of having X many cars on the highway.
Click to expand...
That is true.
AnarchoSocialist said:
khristopher:

Lots of things have been proposed and discussed surrounding high speed rail. But at the moment none of these ideas are more than that. It seems that any time a public figure mentions high speed rail there is an article published around it, which is not a bad thing since it shows there is an interest, but it can lead people to believe that there is more taking place than there actually is. At this point in the debate, anything that is said should be taken lightly and it is pointless to obsess over details because there is no plan in place right now.
Click to expand...
Yes, I forgot that I was reading an article from a newspaper, and you definitely can't believe everything you hear from those haha.
But you do see where I was confused, right?
 
khristopher said:
Yes, I forgot that I was reading an article from a newspaper, and you definitely can't believe everything you hear from those haha.
But you do see where I was confused, right?
Click to expand...

I don't blame you. That's what we're seeing at the Metrolinx RTP process. The green papers were just throwing out ideas, but many people interpreted this to be solid commitments that were funded.

Policy makers have to ensure that citizens know that ideas are just ideas and there is plenty of input and planning left to do. But, they have to be careful not to make it seem like its all talk and no action.
 
I think it's mostly just a case of people being really eager to see this happen.
The thought of being able to go to Montreal or Quebec City by high speed rail makes me very excited :p
 
khristopher said:
I think it's mostly just a case of people being really eager to see this happen.
The thought of being able to go to Montreal or Quebec City by high speed rail makes me very excited :p
Click to expand...

Hey did you change your screen name on here? I didn't know we could do that.
 
While we wait for more announcements/musings/rumours here is a site that I may have posted before but will post again anyways. It is an amateur photographer named Peter Honig (though don't let that term lead you too think the work is not good) who has been photographing the construction of the new High Speed Line in the Netherlands, which will link Amsterdam, Schipol, Rotterdam and Breda to Brussels and Paris). It starts on 12 January 2001 and essentially covers everything from the first earthworks, to removing old structures and infrastructure, building the new line, altering motorways, and testing up until today. Just click here for the index page. The text is all in Dutch but the pictures basically speak for themselves so that is not a big problem. If you just want to look at a few of the more interesting parts click here, here or here for various phases of construction and here for an aerial tour of part of the line which gives a good idea of how straight and complex a high speed line is.

I have followed this project for years now and it is really interesting because not only is among the most recent HS projects, but it is one that involves building infrastructure and high speed train service and branding from the ground up. Since this is what would be taking place in Ontario and Quebec when it begins to develop high speed rail service the lessons and ideas derived from the NSHispeed project are very relevant and interesting. Once the service is launched near the end of this year and has had some time to work through the inevitable problems that will arise I will post a rather extensive article about the project, from start to finish, in part based on some of the research I am doing right now. It is through following this project that I have really come to adopt the position that in order to make a project like high speed rail work, and too make the most of the large investment that will be required, it has to be done right from the very start and second rate solutions would only diminish the possible impact it could have. It has even lead me to change some of my opinions on public-private partnerships on such a project, which admittingly took some time to come to terms with.
 
AnarchoSocialist said:
While we wait for more announcements/musings/rumours here is a site that I may have posted before but will post again anyways. It is an amateur photographer named Peter Honig (though don't let that term lead you too think the work is not good) who has been photographing the construction of the new High Speed Line in the Netherlands, which will link Amsterdam, Schipol, Rotterdam and Breda to Brussels and Paris). It starts on 12 January 2001 and essentially covers everything from the first earthworks, to removing old structures and infrastructure, building the new line, altering motorways, and testing up until today. Just click here for the index page. The text is all in Dutch but the pictures basically speak for themselves so that is not a big problem. If you just want to look at a few of the more interesting parts click here, here or here for various phases of construction and here for an aerial tour of part of the line which gives a good idea of how straight and complex a high speed line is.

I have followed this project for years now and it is really interesting because not only is among the most recent HS projects, but it is one that involves building infrastructure and high speed train service and branding from the ground up. Since this is what would be taking place in Ontario and Quebec when it begins to develop high speed rail service the lessons and ideas derived from the NSHispeed project are very relevant and interesting. Once the service is launched near the end of this year and has had some time to work through the inevitable problems that will arise I will post a rather extensive article about the project, from start to finish, in part based on some of the research I am doing right now. It is through following this project that I have really come to adopt the position that in order to make a project like high speed rail work, and too make the most of the large investment that will be required, it has to be done right from the very start and second rate solutions would only diminish the possible impact it could have. It has even lead me to change some of my opinions on public-private partnerships on such a project, which admittingly took some time to come to terms with.
Click to expand...

Thanks for the pics dude, good stuff!
 
Let's say you're doing some work in London, ON and you take the putative HSR service. Instead of arriving at 10 on the existing VIA you arrive at maybe 9.15. Great. Your last meeting is at 4-4.30pm and your return train takes 1.45 so you'll be home by... 9.45. How come? Because VIA has four hour headway between 3.50pm and 7.50pm...

Ireland by rail has been transformed by 60 minute headway between Dublin and Cork because as AC, WestJet and Porter know it's not about time in transit it's time from door to door and time lost waiting for the next train is as crucial as how fast the train is.

Give VIA enough funding to run a train every 60 minutes between London and Kingston and you might not hurt Porter but you'll damn well hurt the AC shuttle between Pearson and those two cities. Build opposite side platforms and remove other speed restrictions on the mainline and you'll reduce transit times without adding a single horsepower to the VIA locos. Add extra trackage London-Stratford-Guelph-Georgetown so that every time CN scatters containers over the mainline the diversion doesn't cost VIA passengers two extra hours. Eliminate most if not all stops between Oakville, Union and Oshawa and make interline arrangements with GO.

The airline industry must love these studies because for political reasons the entire line between Quebec and Windsor must be upgraded, when minor investments - unsexy, no-ribbon-to-cut investments, could improve the time equation significantly, and lay the foundation for public acceptance of the need for a dedicated 350km/h LGV "Porter/Rapidair killer".
 
Good points. Trains should have a consistent, frequent schedule that's easy to follow. On the mainline between the major cities the tracks are smooth and relatively fast, but on the Kitchener line for example, the it's a rough, noisy, slow ride. Quite a few cities lack rail service at all, where in any other country they'd be served by frequent trains without a second thought.

I disagree on your last point - piecemeal service improvements can help, but with the system as notoriously political as it is, any service improvement could easily be cut back by future governments. What I think it will take to really change how people think about rail travel is a 350 km/h high speed system. The same way that improving bus service won't really change how people think about transit, but a subway line will. Apparently there's a lot of support for it now. Here's a Nanos poll I was just looking at - http://www.nanosresearch.com/library/polls/POLNAT-S08-T305.pdf

To sum up:

Canada having a high speed rail system: 53.5% support, 24.8% somewhat support (78.3% total)
Consider travelling by high speed rail: 77.9%
Totally government funded high speed rail: 42.2% support, 25.3% somewhat support (67.5% total)
Public-private partnership to fund it: 45.5% support, 25.1% somewhat support (70.6% total)

edit: Improving the existing service by having hourly trains, removing bottlenecks, etc could work, but only if the system is changed to make it much harder to slash the system the way it's been done 3 or 4 times over the last few decades.
 
If I had my way all rail infrastructure (tracks, right of ways, but not freight trains) would be placed under crown control and run as a public service like the highways.

Certainly will cut down on the number of CN derailments.
 
Until the mid-1990s CN was a crown corporation. Seems to me there were more deaths in the 1980s from CN railway derailments than in the 2000s.
 
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