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Rail: Ontario-Quebec High Speed Rail Study

There are too many sideroads that can be used as alternate routes, some actually leading through the First Nation itself.

A single point of blockage is easier to manage, gets better press coverage. And like teachers' strikes it's a delicate balance to manage public opinion.

- Paul
 
ottbike said:
/It's aLOT easier to block a railway than a highway
Click to expand...

Not that much easier. Even Gardiner (elevated central portion) has been blocked by protesters before.

In fact, blocking the highway might be safer because you can use cars to slow down/stop traffic while getting people into place. That first freight train is a huge gamble due to the massive stopping distance required.
 
^fair, but if an engineer saw that there were protesters about to set-up, it is likely they would call control and rail traffic would eventually be put on hold. The protesters could also call the railway beforehand.

As well, it is much more likely to go south quick if you blocked a highway, due to the massive backlog of enraged motorists which would ensue. As well, the police would be much more likely to shut down a highway protest quicker than a rail blockade.
 
We're probably veering off topic here, so I won't digress into protest scenarios. But my related question would be - has there been any consultation with this First Nation about changes to the railway along here, and have they taken any position in regards to this?

Both CN and CP trackage abut their lands. The tripletracking of CN didn't appear to raise any concerns, but they do have land claims in process.

I wonder how much consultation/negotiation could be required, and could this be a sticking point for a VIA project through this area.

- Paul
 
Urban Sky said:
The second HSR segment would leave the CN alignment in Marysville and rejoin it approximately 57 km later in Kingston Mills after bypassing Napanee and Kingston, thus necessitating the construction of new rail stations on the northern side of the 401 Freeway:
View attachment 37438
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Not sure how I didn't notice this originally, but I tripped over it by accident looking for something else.

I can see how the horizontal alignment is attractive. But what about the vertical alignment? What's the maximum gradient? How well are the cut and fill balanced? How do you get over Collins Creek near Westbrook on that alignment?
 
nfitz said:
Not sure how I didn't notice this originally, but I tripped over it by accident looking for something else.

I can see how the horizontal alignment is attractive. But what about the vertical alignment? What's the maximum gradient? How well are the cut and fill balanced? How do you get over Collins Creek near Westbrook on that alignment?
Click to expand...
If I remember correctly, the gradients seemed managable to me, even though they certainly require some bridges and (at the most) minor tunneling. Unfortunately, I'm currently touring across Japan, but in the meanwhile, feel free to use Google Earth and draw a line similarly to mine to estimate gradients...
 
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Urban Sky said:
If I remember correctly, the gradients seemed managable to me, even though they certainly require some bridges and (at the most) minor tunneling. Unfortunately, I'm currently touring across Japan, but in the meanwhile, feel free to use Google Earth and draw a line similarly to mine to estimate gradients...
Click to expand...
Oh my, Earth can do that ...

I better go to bed right now without looking ...
 
amnesiajune said:
Look around the world. HSR only works in places where there's literally no other alternative, since airports are pushed to their capacity.
Click to expand...

A better way of saying this would be - HSR prevents airports from exceeding current capacity, and reduces the pressure for expansion, by moving a significant number of people away from flying.

The economics of HSR isn't always as pretty as one might like, but one hears very few suggestions of closing and walking away from what has been built. If anything, just about everywhere that it has been built, there is more investment being pursued.

One doesn't hear about HSR trains running empty. An awful lot of people ride them. The only issue for Canada is, do people want them. We may not be at the point of desperation, but they are a darn good idea to build now, they will only get more expensive as time goes on.

- Paul
 
crs1026 said:
A better way of saying this would be - HSR prevents airports from exceeding current capacity, and reduces the pressure for expansion, by moving a significant number of people away from flying.
Click to expand...

No. There are only two reasons why HSR is built.

The first is that airports are struggling to fulfill the demand for intercity travel - HSR becomes the more expensive option for intercity travel, and air travel becomes the budget option. That's what happens in Western Europe, the US Northeast, South Korea, Japan, etc.

The second reason is that governments want to build a vanity project. That seems to be what we're getting here in Ontario.
 
amnesiajune said:
The first is that airports are struggling to fulfill the demand for intercity travel - HSR becomes the more expensive option for intercity travel, and air travel becomes the budget option. That's what happens in Western Europe, the US Northeast, South Korea, Japan, etc.
Click to expand...

And how does that apply for places where air is not the predominant method of short-distance intercity travel, like, oh.....North America?

Dan
Toronto, Ont.
 
smallspy said:
And how does that apply for places where air is not the predominant method of short-distance intercity travel, like, oh.....North America?
Click to expand...

It is the predominant method here. More people travel between Toronto and Montreal by air than by car. Porter, Air Canada and WestJet have around 11,000 seats per day between Montreal and Toronto, and 8,000 between Ottawa and Toronto. That's almost as much as the 401's daily traffic volume in Brockville, and only a small part of that is travelling from Toronto to Ottawa or Montreal.
 
amnesiajune said:
It is the predominant method here. More people travel between Toronto and Montreal by air than by car. Porter, Air Canada and WestJet have around 11,000 seats per day between Montreal and Toronto, and 8,000 between Ottawa and Toronto. That's almost as much as the 401's daily traffic volume in Brockville, and only a small part of that is travelling from Toronto to Ottawa or Montreal.
Click to expand...

Where the heck did you get this statistic? It's blatantly obvious that more people drive between the cities than fly. Especially outside of Winter.
 
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