News   Jan 15, 2021
 5.3K     14 
News   Jan 15, 2021
 953     0 
News   Jan 15, 2021
 1K     1 

Rail Deck Park (?, ?, ?)

Amare

Senior Member
Member Bio
Joined
Feb 4, 2015
Messages
3,283
Reaction score
3,513
Location
Toronto
Why is Spadina GO station needed? It's just 1 km from Union. It will add extra time in the journey and GO trains aren't great at accelerating either.
There are tons of reasons: it would increase transit options to access the central downtown core, greatly improve commute times into and out of the core, provide more commute options for people who want to access the western side of the core, etc...

The proximity to Union will become more of a moot point once various pieces of the GO Network is electrified (baring an election of the Liberal leader Del Duca who would surely explore the hydrogen fairy dust idea).
 

TossYourJacket

Active Member
Member Bio
Joined
Feb 22, 2018
Messages
431
Reaction score
846
The proximity to Union will become more of a moot point once various pieces of the GO Network is electrified (baring an election of the Liberal leader Del Duca who would surely explore the hydrogen fairy dust idea).
Someone just has to convince Del Duca that he can make an announcement at the installation of each individual catenary pole and he'd finally be on board.
 

Mercenary

Active Member
Member Bio
Joined
Mar 4, 2019
Messages
232
Reaction score
282
Even if the funds are available and construction begins.

Constructing this park will take longer than the Union Station Renovation.

I don't think this Park will become a reality until 2045 or 2050.
 

Northern Light

Senior Member
Member Bio
Joined
May 20, 2007
Messages
9,501
Reaction score
12,629
Location
Toronto/EY
Even if the funds are available and construction begins.

Constructing this park will take longer than the Union Station Renovation.

I don't think this Park will become a reality until 2045 or 2050.

The Phase 1 Block, east of Spadina will likely be built out, in w/e form (buildings+park or just park) by 2030.

Phase 2, west of Spadina is more likely to be a bit later, though still by 2040 I would think.
 

H4F33Z

Active Member
Member Bio
Joined
Apr 11, 2019
Messages
302
Reaction score
561
Location
Thorncliffe Park
My key takeaway is that park is amazing. I think it'll look really good and make the city attractive. However, I don't think that it should happen now or any time soon. It will happen when the time is right.
 

afransen

Senior Member
Member Bio
Joined
Apr 22, 2007
Messages
3,291
Reaction score
1,322
It's a nice idea, but that space has to be effective for transportation foremost. You really have to think ahead as to how the tracks to Union are going to be used for a long time into the future if you are going to build a structure like this above.
 

toronto647

Active Member
Member Bio
Joined
Mar 7, 2020
Messages
118
Reaction score
208
The Phase 1 Block, east of Spadina will likely be built out, in w/e form (buildings+park or just park) by 2030.

Phase 2, west of Spadina is more likely to be a bit later, though still by 2040 I would think.

Just out of curiosity what is your rationale behind those timelines. And how are you determining they are 2 separate phases? Wouldn't it be more likely the west part Spadina to Blue Jays would be built earlier. It would be easier to extend the union park development park west towards spadina as opposed to having an awkward middle ground between blue jays and spadina and then west of spadina having a park?

Anyone got any thoughts on that?
 

Northern Light

Senior Member
Member Bio
Joined
May 20, 2007
Messages
9,501
Reaction score
12,629
Location
Toronto/EY
Just out of curiosity what is your rationale behind those timelines. And how are you determining they are 2 separate phases? Wouldn't it be more likely the west part Spadina to Blue Jays would be built earlier. It would be easier to extend the union park development park west towards spadina as opposed to having an awkward middle ground between blue jays and spadina and then west of spadina having a park?

Anyone got any thoughts on that?

Because City staff have already specified that there are 2 phases and are moving to acquire the air rights for phase 1, which is the eastern portion. (east of Spadina)


You seem a bit confused, Spadina to Blue Jays Way IS the eastern part. The western part is west of Spadina to Bathurst.
 

toronto647

Active Member
Member Bio
Joined
Mar 7, 2020
Messages
118
Reaction score
208
Because City staff have already specified that there are 2 phases and are moving to acquire the air rights for phase 1, which is the eastern portion. (east of Spadina)


You seem a bit confused, Spadina to Blue Jays Way IS the eastern part. The western part is west of Spadina to Bathurst.

Thank you for clarifying. I would assume for this phase it will still take a long time to expropriate or negotiate for the air rights for the first phase (east of Spadina). Does anyone know how long this process usually takes?
 

Northern Light

Senior Member
Member Bio
Joined
May 20, 2007
Messages
9,501
Reaction score
12,629
Location
Toronto/EY
Thank you for clarifying. I would assume for this phase it will still take a long time to expropriate or negotiate for the air rights for the first phase (east of Spadina). Does anyone know how long this process usually takes?

Council has authorized staff to use expropriation if necessary.

Times for these processes can vary widely.

The City could negotiate forever; though if determined to get a property will typically move for expropriation within six months.

Though I'm not aware of the City having made such a move yet; and authorization was granted in February.

Once the City moves to expropriate, it can essentially take possession immediately.

A rights owner can only stop this by disputing whether the expropriation has a legitimate public purpose. In this case, a park would easily pass that test.

However, once the City moves to take possession, if no price is agreed on, the matter (of price) leaves the City's hands and goes to the OMB, as I recall for arbitration.

In theory (and this has happened) that decision can in turn be appealed to Divisional Court.

However, that is entirely a matter of price, not possession.

****

I can affirm that City staff had been planning to begin construction as early as 2021.

Due to pandemic related delays if nothing else, that will not likely be met.

But I feel quite safe with the suggestion there will be a finished park long before 2030.
 

toronto647

Active Member
Member Bio
Joined
Mar 7, 2020
Messages
118
Reaction score
208
Council has authorized staff to use expropriation if necessary.

Times for these processes can vary widely.

The City could negotiate forever; though if determined to get a property will typically move for expropriation within six months.

Though I'm not aware of the City having made such a move yet; and authorization was granted in February.

Once the City moves to expropriate, it can essentially take possession immediately.

A rights owner can only stop this by disputing whether the expropriation has a legitimate public purpose. In this case, a park would easily pass that test.

However, once the City moves to take possession, if no price is agreed on, the matter (of price) leaves the City's hands and goes to the OMB, as I recall for arbitration.

In theory (and this has happened) that decision can in turn be appealed to Divisional Court.

However, that is entirely a matter of price, not possession.

****

I can affirm that City staff had been planning to begin construction as early as 2021.

Due to pandemic related delays if nothing else, that will not likely be met.

But I feel quite safe with the suggestion there will be a finished park long before 2030.

Wow, your explanation is well detailed and step by step for people not familiar to process like me. Looking forward to the space being expropriated rather sooner than later. We desperately need a central like park for Downtown Toronto rather than new condos. (I am sure most folks would agree with that)
 

EastYorkTTCFan

Senior Member
Member Bio
Joined
Jun 5, 2015
Messages
2,953
Reaction score
955
Location
East York
It's a nice idea, but that space has to be effective for transportation foremost. You really have to think ahead as to how the tracks to Union are going to be used for a long time into the future if you are going to build a structure like this above.
This is an excellent point that seems to be ignored because people have this idea that having Grand park over the railroad tracks is going to bring tourists and give locals a place to walk dogs and have kids play etc.
 

W. K. Lis

Superstar
Member Bio
Joined
Dec 24, 2007
Messages
18,347
Reaction score
7,150
Location
Toronto, ON, CAN, Terra, Sol, Milky Way
This is an excellent point that seems to be ignored because people have this idea that having Grand park over the railroad tracks is going to bring tourists and give locals a place to walk dogs and have kids play etc.

Nobody goes to Central Park in New York City for the same reasons... not!

 

Top