Proposed renaming of Dundas Street

[gabe]

Yeah, I’m pretty sure a lot of the anti-LGBT people in this country are also anti-Ghana too.

Anti-Ghana? I doubt it. According to the 2021 government census, approximately 71 percent of the population are Christian, 20 percent Muslim, 3 percent adhere to indigenous or animistic religious beliefs, and 6 percent belong to other religious groups or have no religious beliefs.

Religion in Ghana - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

 

[zang]

Anti-Ghana? I doubt it. According to the 2021 government census, approximately 71 percent of the population are Christian, 20 percent Muslim, 3 percent adhere to indigenous or animistic religious beliefs, and 6 percent belong to other religious groups or have no religious beliefs.

My point being racists and homophobes here have a lot of overlap.

 

[ShonTron]

It’s also well documented that a lot of anti-LGBT policies in African countries are funded and assisted by American evangelical organizations.

 

[gabe]

How about cancelling this nonsense and put the money towards something a little more useful?

Yonge-Dundas Square renaming could cost $500K more than budgeted​

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/toronto/yonge-dundas-square-renaming-costs-funding-1.7231976

"The city has budgeted $335,000 for the renaming, but the Yonge-Dundas Square Board of Management now says it could cost up to $860,000, depending on which implementation plan is chosen,"

 

[T3G]

What a bunch of goofballs. When are we going to get some adults on city council for a change?

 

[Northern Light]

Though this refers to a library branch and not the street, the intiative to remove the name Dundas is tied to this..........

At the the next meeting of the Toronto Public Library Board, the Board will consider renaming the Jane/Dundas branch the Daniel G. Hill branch.

https://torontopubliclibrary.typepad.com/board-meetings/2024-06-24/13-branch-renaming-jane-dundas--combined.pdf

The change in name is estimated to cost $60,000 (as expensive as some may feel that is, it surely raises issues about the cost of renaming Dundas square, literally more than an order of magnitude greater)

In respect of the merits of Mr. Hill in having his name on the branch, the report offers this:

With no slight against Mr. Hill, the following would be of some concern:

If this were put to a public vote, it would likely fail.

As renaming's go, given the relatively low cost, Mr. Hill's apparent Bona Fides I find this generally supportable.

But as I also see nothing urgent about it; I am concerned about potential public backlash when the renaming is not broadly supported.

To me, I think this should probably be deferred for now, based on the public engagement with apologies to Mr. Hill's advocates.

I think its probably a perfectly fine idea, tainted by bad timing and association.

 

[DSC]

Though this refers to a library branch and not the street, the intiative to remove the name Dundas is tied to this..........

At the the next meeting of the Toronto Public Library Board, the Board will consider renaming the Jane/Dundas branch the Daniel G. Hill branch.

https://torontopubliclibrary.typepad.com/board-meetings/2024-06-24/13-branch-renaming-jane-dundas--combined.pdf

The change in name is estimated to cost $60,000 (as expensive as some may feel that is, it surely raises issues about the cost of renaming Dundas square and literally more than an order of magnitude greater)

In respect of the merits of Mr. Hill in having his name on the branch, the report offers this:

View attachment 573252

With no slight against Mr. Hill, the following would be of some concern:

View attachment 573254

If this were put to a public vote, it would likely fail.

As renaming's go, given the relatively low cost, Mr. Hill's apparent Bona Fides I find this generally supportable.

But as I also see nothing urgent about it; I am concerned about potential public backlash when the renaming is not broadly supported.

To me, I think this should probably be deferred for now, based on the public engagement with apologies to Mr. Hill's advocates.

I think its probably a perfectly fine idea, tainted by bad timing and association.

Yes, the whole idea of re-namings has got a black-eye around here because it is far from clear that Mr Dundas actually supported slavery or held up its abolition in Scotland. Of course, he had no real connection to Canada so why his name was here at all is another question. The City also made things worse by first wanting to rename Dundas Street (at a huge cost) and then Moise (and Chow) screwed things up further by not consulting properly about the name change for the Square. In general I oppose rewriting history - better to explain. If Dundas really is a 'villain' then put up plaques explaining how and why anyone thought he 'deserved' to have town (and then a street and a square) named after him.

 

[T3G]

Man, imagine how many books they could buy with $60,000! Sickening stupidity.

 

[jje1000]

How about cancelling this nonsense and put the money towards something a little more useful?

Yonge-Dundas Square renaming could cost $500K more than budgeted​

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/toronto/yonge-dundas-square-renaming-costs-funding-1.7231976

"The city has budgeted $335,000 for the renaming, but the Yonge-Dundas Square Board of Management now says it could cost up to $860,000, depending on which implementation plan is chosen,"

The arrogance of Moise on this has been off-putting.

 

[BigWillieCollum]

Yesterday was a joke. Colle having a fit because the deputant called him Chris Moise rather than Councillor Moise, Perks implying that what citizens want (petition) is irrelevant and stifling genuine discussion under the guise of racism - why can you speculate Dundas was racist and not people in Ghana? Fletcher just being blatantly rude and pretending like S37 is just free money that couldn’t be allocated elsewhere.

And worst of all, Moise instantly labelling the deputant racist and being generally sanctimonious.

Too late now but Chow should have stepped in, insisted this follow the standard renaming policy, whcih was just implemented! A total, total mess.

 

[zang]

why can you speculate Dundas was racist and not people in Ghana?

Because the latter is generalizing? On top of which we’re not talking about Ghanaian people. Sankofa is not a racist word.

Same reason we don’t fight against the word Hamburger, even though the Germans got famous for being some of the biggest bigots of the early 20th century. It’s a German word, unrelated to the politics of the time.

 

[christiesplits]

And worst of all, Moise instantly labelling the deputant racist and being generally sanctimonious.

I'm on the fence about renaming, but it shouldn't be surprising that a Black councillor could feel defensive when discussing a man who prolonged slavery, especially when it relates to a site in his ward.

 

[picard102]

when discussing a man who prolonged slavery,

They aren't discussing any such person.

 

[C-mac]

Yes, the whole idea of re-namings has got a black-eye around here because it is far from clear that Mr Dundas actually supported slavery or held up its abolition in Scotland. Of course, he had no real connection to Canada so why his name was here at all is another question. The City also made things worse by first wanting to rename Dundas Street (at a huge cost) and then Moise (and Chow) screwed things up further by not consulting properly about the name change for the Square. In general I oppose rewriting history - better to explain. If Dundas really is a 'villain' then put up plaques explaining how and why anyone thought he 'deserved' to have town (and then a street and a square) named after him.

Very well said.

 

[Admiral Beez]

I voted for him, but I've given up on Councilor "Sankofa" Moise. This renaming is such a waste of money. Close to a million dollars? Put that towards emergency housing so we can clear the parks of encampments, or anything else that addresses real issues faced by Torontonians.