Pro-City citizens group--Meeting tonight, 9/11

[Edward Skira]

And I'd like to see Ford and his ilk present a real plan to balance the budget. They talk a lot but I don't see any real proposals from them.

 

[allabootmatt]

I am sympathetic to the 'waste' argument inasmuch as, for the sake of general accountability in government, it should obviously be reduced where possible. Miller has made a mistake in not at least making some token effort to up efficiency, since clearly people want to see one before consenting to new taxes.

But where it becomes utterly pernicious is when citics in Council and lots of ordinary citizens just blithely assume that, all things being equal, the city could if it finally got tough on 'waste' cut its expenses by half a billion dollars+ every year and no one would notice any difference in services. That's a persistent and quite unrealistic presumption that obstructs real debate on the city's fiscal challenges.

Of course there is fat to be trimmed. But $575M worth of fat? No way.



Edit: Just saw your comment, Ed. Absolutely right--and the media has been positively supine in failing to ask Denzil and co. to elaborate what, exactly, they propose to do to balance the budget in the absence of new revenue. The answer, of course, is that they have no plan. Especially since, as the brou-ha-ha over community centres and TTC cuts has shown, even the far right on council has no stomach for cuts to front-line services. And I know, waste, unions, etc. is their argument, but with the annual dollar amounts in deficit we're talking about there would have to be enormous cuts to such services.

 

[allabootmatt]

One more thing: for those of you who do support thse new taxes, the mayor's site pitching them to the city, www.fairtaxes.ca, has an option to send a letter of support to city councillors as well as lots of info. on the proposed measures.

 

[Urban Shocker]

The Coward Robert Ford probably hasn't a clue how to balance a budget.

 

[theman23]

Just saw your comment, Ed. Absolutely right--and the media has been positively supine in failing to ask Denzil and co. to elaborate what, exactly, they propose to do to balance the budget in the absence of new revenue.

The Star did ask Denzil what his plan was. His response? "I don't want to play the numbers game." About the budget.

 

[unimaginative2]

Exactly, allabootmatt. All I want from the city is a serious attempt at greater efficiency, and I'm not talking about insignificant cuts to councillors' perks. I want a real, complete overhaul of city staffing and middle management. Once something like that is done, the city would have the undisputed moral authority to ask for more money from local taxpayers and higher levels of government.

Unfortunately, the "opposition" members of council are so weak that they are completely incapable of suggesting any alternatives.

 

[poppajojo]

The Star did ask Denzil what his plan was. His response? "I don't want to play the numbers game." About the budget.

Can you post the link to the article so we can read it?
When the taxes were denied I remember reading a list of suggestions by different councillors of ways to possibly improve the fiscal situation. I'm not sure, but I doubt they'd have the sources, manpower and information at hand like the Mayor does to authoritatively plan a new budget, these accusations you guys are making seem really unfair.

 

[Junglab]

If they don't "have the sources, manpower and information at hand like the Mayor does to authoritatively plan a new budget", perhaps they should stop trying to prevent the mayor from doing so? In any case, the budget documents are readily available on-line, and Denzil's $53,000 office budget could certainly be, at least in part, directed towards making some sense of them by a staffer... since he can't seem to do so himself.
It's all just very cheap political theater, of course (and I include Miller amongst the dramatis personae as well). A pity, because it's actually a fairly important issue...

 

[poppajojo]

If they don't "have the sources, manpower and information at hand like the Mayor does to authoritatively plan a new budget", perhaps they should stop trying to prevent the mayor from doing so?

So because the mayor has far more power, we should let him have his way with everything? There is a reason for the councillors, they aren't all supposed to be yes-men.

In any case, the budget documents are readily available on-line, and Denzil's $53,000 office budget could certainly be, at least in part, directed towards making some sense of them by a staffer... since he can't seem to do so himself.

I'm not specifically defending Denzil, it's just plainly a weak argument to say that the councillors should individually come up with new budget proposals themselves. This takes an incredible amount of time, money and skill. Even with a budget of $53 000, how much of that money, if any, would be available towards this initiative? Would it be enough to hire skilled enough labour? e.g. accountant. I already said councillors have made suggestions, but they haven't made specific calculations.

It's all just very cheap political theater, of course and I include Miller amongst the dramatis personae as well). A pity, because it's actually a fairly important issue...

I agree, this is getting ugly. Miller isn't helping by pretty much cutting off any public communication.

 

[lordmandeep]

i think the most important thing the city can do is spend less in things it does not need to spend. Like increasing wages and increasing city employees.


You can mix in new taxes as well but that should easily a cut around 100 or so million easily or even more.

 

[The Mississauga Muse]

i think the most important thing the city can do is spend less in things it does not need to spend. Like increasing wages and increasing city employees.


You can mix in new taxes as well but that should easily a cut around 100 or so million easily or even more.

Now I'm not sure about what I'm saying here --it's only just a sense I'm getting from about a year's of intense observation of a GTA municipal council.

But I agree with Lordmandeep on this. If investigators could really get into the municipalities, I suspect there'd be tons of saving if the focus was Employees.

I'm convinced that a mayor and councillors have very little understanding of where money goes --and leaks. The larger the city-corporation, the less they can keep track.

It's Employees/Staff who prepare the budget, not mayor and council. And given that some of the senior staff make nice salaries, perks and ultimately pensions, it's in their interest to ...well, it's in their interests.

Last municipal election, given the low voter turnout, I'd love to find out WHO of the dismal 20-25% vote. Like what percent of voters are municipal employees themselves. Or spouse, voting age children.

And how many others voters are somehow tapped into the $$$$ and so motivated to keeping things just as they are.

Given the low voter turnout, it's not in the interest of a councillor who represents a ward to tick off the city employees. Even if the entire staff have limited people voting in a certain ward, employees could campaign against a "pesky rock the boat" councillor en masse.

We'll never know of course because it's not possible to get that kind of voter demographic info. But I'd put up a thousand U.S. that citizens are payin' in more ways than one by avoiding the voter's booth.

It's in the interest of staff to keep an employee empire going. And if knowledge is power --it's staff who've got the knowledge, they're the ones writing the Corporate Reports that get handed off to Mayor and Councillors.

I'm at a point where I even wonder if the councillor staff are working for the councillor --or-- answer to the city manager.

Speaking of which... certainly in the municipality that I am researching the City Manager is the second most powerful person in the organization.

Councillors? They're low on the Corporate Pole. Plus --

Not only do they know what side of the bread the butter's on, few have the courage to bite the hand that feeds.