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Pretty much the last gasp for TTC type & tile preservation

I certainly understand Joe Clark's point of view. Preserving the station tiling is not only an architecture issue, but probably also an issue of "collective memory", since almost every Torontonian has used the TTC subway at least once in his/her life.

Collective memory is powerful stuff. In Hong Kong, the demolition of ordinary-looking, indescript buildings like Queen's Pier and Star Ferry Pier led large numbers of ordinary citizens to fight the police simply because those two buildings were important in the city's transportation history and are part of their "collective memory".

I think a compromise can be reached over how much of the old tiling can be saved. I would prefer it if the majority of the tiling from older subway stations be saved, but a significant part of the tiling be removed to make way for artwork (such as the artwork at Queen and North York Centre stations, which do not appear to take away from the character of the stations).

One artwork I would propose for B-D stations is to use part of the platform walls to show (using the photo-mosaic tiling at Sheppard-Yonge) what Bloor Street or Danforth Avenue looks like above the station.
 
The only positive thing I can say is that at least, starting with the Sheppard Subway Stations, the TTC has again embraced the subway font for at least the station name text at platform level, so hopefully the faux-helvetica signage at least for the station names will never return. For the cheesy, half-baked Museum Station, they kept the font!

Dundas, College, Union (last edition) and now Museum (and coming soon, Pape, St. Patrick and Osgoode) are good reasons why the TTC shouldn't be able to touch their stations, except perhaps give them the cleaning they so deserve.

I'm totally on side with Joe Clark here.
 
Maybe if we were building NEW subway stations we wouldn't be so concerned with fixing up old ones.
 
wyliepoon said:
I think a compromise can be reached over how much of the old tiling can be saved. I would prefer it if the majority of the tiling from older subway stations be saved, but a significant part of the tiling be removed to make way for artwork (such as the artwork at Queen and North York Centre stations, which do not appear to take away from the character of the stations).
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AFAIK the artwork at NYC is original to the station--remember that the station postdated the subway line it belongs to by about 15 years...
 
i have to agree with SeanTrans and Joe Clark on this one. If the ttc were building stations to the quality we should expect then I'd be less worried. The fact that the TTC can't even get the kerning of a station name correct only frightens me more. Being a designer myself, I find the simplicity and elegance of the bloor line fantastic how it is. Just renovate and clean them up to make them look as polished as they should.
 
adma said:
Huh? Lawrence-to-Finch over the rest of the system? What are you--Ron Burgundy or something?
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I'm sorry, I don't know who that is.

I don't think that Lawrence to Finch has the nicest stations, but I really do like how there is a consistent theme. Generally speaking, I like a good portion of the YUS stations. As for the Bloor stations, not so much.
 
Chuck said:
I'm sorry, I don't know who that is.
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anchorman.jpg
 
Holy crap, I totally set myself up for that one! Hehe, I do deserve an award for that!

Can't say that I really liked Anchorman, and I don't remember much about Will Ferrel's character, except that he was a typical Will Ferrel character. But what I can say is that the Sex Panther scenes were gold!

Edit: To be fair, I'm usually so confused by adma's posts, that I don't even bother taking them seriously. Turns out this is one of the few times I knew what he was talking about!
 
Chuck said:
I'm sorry, I don't know who that is.

I don't think that Lawrence to Finch has the nicest stations, but I really do like how there is a consistent theme. Generally speaking, I like a good portion of the YUS stations. As for the Bloor stations, not so much.
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Until the 1980s, the 1954 line had a "consistent theme", too...
 
The thing is, there is a way to compromise... develop designs that successfully integrate the old style into a new unique design. Retrofit, not destroy and rebuild.

The sad thing is, it's a complete impossibility for the TTC to achieve.
 
TTC approves unique looks for stations

Tiles May Change
Kelly Grant, National Post Published: Thursday, March 27, 2008


The TTC is now free to scrap the uniform tile motif in its stations in favour of unique designs.
The commission voted yesterday to go beyond a staff proposal that called for individual looks for 63 of the system's 69 stations and ask that art or other innovations also be considered for four stations the proposal had deemed untouchable: High Park, Keele, Coxwell and Woodbine, all on the Bloor-Danforth line.
"I come from an art background," said Sandra Bussin, a TTC commissioner and the councillor for Ward 32 Beach-es-East York. "Going to school back and forth on that [Bloor-Danforth] subway, I know exactly what those stations look like. They're boring, very boring."
Coxwell and Woodbine stations are in Ms. Bussin's ward. At the meeting yesterday, she proposed that all four of the stations listed as off-limits be looked at for enhancements when the TTC releases a full list of stations due for an overhaul next year. Two stations on the Yonge line, Rosedale and Wellesley, have heritage status and will not be changed.
The TTC's distinctive visual identity - which includes its own typeface -- is a hot issue among transit activists. In posts to several Toronto city blogs this week, fans and foes of the current tiles and typeface debated the TTC's proposal. Only one member of the public actually attended the meeting. He urged the commission to replace its escalators, elevators and stairs with ramps.
Joe Mihevc, the vice-chairman of the TTC, said the transit authority has no immediate plans to makeover all its stations. It just wanted the freedom to alter the look of the stations when large-scale repairs are necessary or extra money is available.
Yesterday's vote followed discussion by the Toronto Preservation Board of granting heritage protection to the entire Bloor/Danforth line, and the Yonge/University line from St. George to Eglinton.
Mr. Mihevc said next's month's unveiling of the refurbished Museum station is an example of what yesterday's policy change will allow. The $5-million Museum remake incorporates weight-bearing columns designed and inspired by the collections of the adjoining Royal Ontario Museum.
"I think this is the right approach," Mr. Mihevc said. "And frankly, I think, yes, there is higher demand from our public to have better-quality public spaces. We need renewal in our stations, and when the opportunities presents itself, we should seize upon it and make sure the stations relate to the neighbourhoods in which they are positioned."
Peter Milczyn, another commissioner, said the TTC should spend its energy fixing subway entrances instead.
"We don't have to redo the tile in Bay station, but we should redo the entrance to Bay station so it doesn't look like you're entering a public toilet. In fact, most cities of our stature in the world have public toilets which are far more attractive," he said.
Also at yesterday's meeting, the commission approved a plan to shut part of the Yonge subway line down at 12:30 a.m. --90 minutes earlier than normal -- to allow work crews more time to repair concrete tunnel liners.
The trains will stop running early every night but Saturday between Finch and Lawrence stations from June, 2008, to February, 2009. The early closures will be switched to the stretch between Sheppard and Davisville stations from March, 2009, to July, 2010. The TTC will run shuttle buses during the closures, at a cost $1.7-million.
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I don't understand why Wellesley and Rosedale are "historic" but Eglinton is not (though it's possible Eglinton already has historic designation).. If anything Wellesley *shouldn't* be historic, as there's the greatest redevelopment potential there if they ever decide to rid the station of the parking lot above it. Not to mention the station is due for an upgrade in the next couple years with the second exit on the north end.
 
I guess the only thing we can do is prepare for the orgy of heritage destruction. Hardly anyone was advocating the complete preservation of every part of every station and worthwhile compromises were suggested. But the commission made a decision in ignorance. It's not to say that it's guaranteed that the wrong course of action will be taken and the tiles will be destroyed, but one may look at Pape to see the future, and it's disappointing. The quality of recent redesigns is like rubbing salt in the wounds. They may say the current look is boring, but if that's the worst that can be said, it's better than pathetic. False stone tiles and clay painted concrete are what's pathetic.

Local subway stations could be up for makeovers

TTC may see individualized designs at stations undergoing renovations
BY DAVID NICKLE
March 27, 2008 02:40 PM


It won't happen overnight, but eventually, all those bland, public-washroom-like subway stations could be getting a more distinctive makeover, after the Toronto Transit Commission voted to allow individualized designs to be incorporated when a station is renovated.

Commissioners rejected a staff proposal to preserve the designs of four stations along the Bloor/Danforth line - High Park, Keele, Coxwell and Woodbine - as a nod to the history of that line.

The Toronto Preservation Board had asked for a report on preserving subway stations along the entire Bloor/Danforth line and the Yonge/University line from St. George to Eglinton the way they were designed.

Those stations were designed to have an aesthetic similarity. But that similarity, some commissioners noted, was in a motif that was bland, institutional and reminiscent of public washrooms.

"I come from an art background - and the Bloor/Danforth stations are boring," said Commissioner Sandra Bussin (Ward 32, Beaches-East York). "Those were built at one time in the 1960s, and I know exactly what Coxwell and Woodbine look like, and they're boring. ... It's time for a change."

Bussin noted that privately sponsored redesigns such as the Museum station, which will be rebuilt to resemble aspects of the Royal Ontario Museums' exhibits, is something that should be encouraged.

"To suggest without having seen it that the Museum station is not a success, I take exception. They always say that art is at least 15 years ahead of the public. Well we have to think ahead. These should be inviting."

Commissioner Peter Milczyn (Ward 5, Etobicoke-Lakeshore), however, said the commission was missing the mark by renovating the interior of stations.

"There is not a pressing need to re-tile every station in the system because it is a subway platform," he said. "The subway station should relate to what's above it, but for the most part the platforms are fine the way they are. The real opportunities to improve our stations is in the above-ground portions of the structures. The things that welcome you into the system."

The commission also approved some specific changes to Pape station, put forward by Ward 30 (Toronto-Danforth) Councillor Paula Fletcher.

The station, which is undergoing a renovation at present, could have solar panels placed on its roof, a bicycle locker out front and an entrance that is better signed.

"We need to make sure it's identifiable from the street as Pape station, a bit more promotion around that fact," Fletcher said. "With the current station, you'd think you're going to Tim Hortons and not Pape station."
 
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