gabe
Senior Member
It's only a matter of time before we get Republican style Right To Work legislation in Ontario. ( right to work less)
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Premier Doug Ford's Ontario
- Thread starter animatronic
- Start date
It's only a matter of time before we get Republican style Right To Work legislation in Ontario. ( right to work less)
tiffer24
Senior Member
"our fiscal situation is bleak"
Sure, we are exactly like Venezuala.
We used to be exactly like Greece, but I guess that dumb metaphor no longer works for right wing pundits. I keep waiting for the food riots and mass protests, but strange how these end-of-times scare tatics about imminent economic chaos have never, ever happened in Ontario... even during the terrible 2008 recession.
BTW--Current economic indicators tell us that Ontario's finances are in no danger of collapse, no matter who is at Queen's Park...
Sure, we are exactly like Venezuala.
We used to be exactly like Greece, but I guess that dumb metaphor no longer works for right wing pundits. I keep waiting for the food riots and mass protests, but strange how these end-of-times scare tatics about imminent economic chaos have never, ever happened in Ontario... even during the terrible 2008 recession.
BTW--Current economic indicators tell us that Ontario's finances are in no danger of collapse, no matter who is at Queen's Park...
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Thinker
Active Member
Ummm.... Yeah maybe, but he hasn't done anything sensible about it. So far cancellation fees of approved projects, (i.e. hydro, wind turbines) has cost the tax payer billions. If Ford and his spineless band of clappers are to continue their cost saving measures at this rate, expect at end of his term this province's budget and financial status might look a lot bleaker than it did months ago. Remember Ford is not an honest man, while a councillor at CH was slapped several times with conflict of interest charges and indications are he intends to continue with such practices. So called savings will be found by cancelling grants,, programs and selling off govt owned assets. There is no open discussion with this government, neither is consultation - Just remember the secret healthcare overhaul. So far Ford has done nothing for the tax payers but catered to his "big builder friends" and other industrial sectors by deregulation of health and safety rules.
Still waiting on BurlOak to provide us with a long short list of good things Ford has done.
Videodrome
Senior Member
Yeah, he isn't afraid to bust unions like the GOP. I don't always like them, but oppose US style laws.
Northern Light
Superstar
In point of fact, I don't think he's done any such thing, let alone done it in an 'excellent' manner.
Before going further, let me add I consider myself a deficit hawk, I not only prefer balanced budgets, especially in good economic times; but I would support reduction of the absolute net debt as well.
But let's be perfectly clear, the deficit numbers as stated are not accurate.
They went from understated, largely because hydro pricing related debt appeared on agency/corporate books rather than government books; to overstated.
There is really no dispute in the accounting world that pension surpluses should be counted against deficits, because pension shortfalls count in deficits. That's just even-handed accounting.
The AG's change of heart on this file was almost certainly politically motivated and rather disheartening to see, as this way of accounting for pensions pre-dates the Liberals being in power.
Even the Conservatives own report from former BC Premier Campbell agrees they should count, though was willing to suggest some discount due to lesser liquidity.
A deal on how to account for that surplus will doubtless be announced in the not too distant future and at least 2B of the deficit and perhaps as much as 4B will be erased overnight.
***
Now, we can agree there is no need for a deficit, nor should there be one in times of 2% plus economic growth.
But Ontario's per capita program spending is already lowest or second lowest in Canada in any given year.
The only major reduction that should be on the table is merging the Catholic and Public schools systems and shelving school boards altogether. That would ring in savings of at least
1.5B per year, conservatively. Up to 2.5B is realistic.
I haven't seen that raised by the current government at all.
What they are proposing (and have partially implemented) is tax cuts. Even though Ontario's tax burden is among the lowest in Canada and we have a deficit of between 8.5B-13.5B in the current fiscal year.
The cost of adding that burden is enlarging the deficit rather than reducing it.
Its also doing so to very little benefit.
Cancelling this year's minimum wage increase that had been scheduled for January 1st also had the effect of growing the deficit.
The numbers are in from the last increase and showed net job growth and net revenue growth correlated to the previous minimum wage hike.
Based on those numbers, the government chose to enlarge the deficit between 300M-900M by cancelling the increase.
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The single most important move to balance the books would be an honest discussion about a tax hike.
Not on income tax where Ontario is near a reasonable number now.
But most likely on sales tax. A 2 point increase (which would only put us back to where we were pre-Harper, would bring our HST in line w/Quebec, and all of the Maritime provinces).
It would raise at least 6B per year and maybe as much as 8B.
But taking the lower number, and combining it with the the above savings I identified, the budget would fall between balance and surplus.
The government has given no indication it intends to pursue this line of thinking either.
There are a couple of very defensible, if small, public policy changes this government has made........an honest discussion or action on the states of the province's finances is not one of them.
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Thinker
Active Member
I think @pman did a reasonable job.
Compared to Trudeau, an inanimate carbon rod would be considered doing a very good job. Add in allowing buck-a-beer and Ford would fit in at excellent.
No, he didn't, we would like to hear (read) it from you, since you were the one who proclaimed it.
AlbertHWagstaff
Senior Member
Add in allowing buck-a-beer and Ford would fit in at excellent
Buck-a-beer is just bread and circuses distraction, of no real consequence.
Recent governments in Ontario and elsewhere have been racing to the bottom with tax cuts, and all it's got us is fragile finances and deficits... and the hyperbolic "total disaster" nonsense you like so much. The fact is you can't balance the books by cutting your revenue line while the real cost of services is always rising.
Major undertakings like streamlining/merging school boards or other service delivery overhauls would reduce costs but no one, not even "tough guy" Doug has the appetite to actually tackle any of those things meaningfully. So instead, it's a few chops here and there, and the boat sails on. And again, there's no Venezuela/Zimbabwe scale economic crisis looming, despite your cries that the sky has fallen.
No party will ever want to rock the boat so seriously that it'll jeopardize their re-election. Winning and staying in power is what matters now. If you get too arrogant or you piss off too many people, out you go and the cycle repeats itself. When the PCs' poll numbers start looking like they're going to get tossed out as the next election nears, they'll turn on the taps and make promises just like the Liberals.
tiffer24
Senior Member
Doug Ford complaining about incivility and "filthy mouths"...
A handful of student protesters seated in the public gallery interrupted legislators by shouting chants of "free tuition" followed by profanity directed at the premier. Ford chastised the group and blamed the Opposition for influencing them.
"That's how they train our kids, with a filthy mouth," he said. "They should have their mouths washed out with soap. That's what they should have, because that's embarrassing."
https://www.cp24.com/news/doug-ford...s-at-legislature-have-filthy-mouths-1.4303758
A handful of student protesters seated in the public gallery interrupted legislators by shouting chants of "free tuition" followed by profanity directed at the premier. Ford chastised the group and blamed the Opposition for influencing them.
"That's how they train our kids, with a filthy mouth," he said. "They should have their mouths washed out with soap. That's what they should have, because that's embarrassing."
https://www.cp24.com/news/doug-ford...s-at-legislature-have-filthy-mouths-1.4303758
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Thorns_Embrace
Active Member
I really love how the uiniversities that are supposedlymanditory for educating young people to be upstanding citizens are teaching people that interrupting a political debate by calling people crackers is acceptable behavior.
tiffer24
Senior Member
Sure civility.
Kids learn by example. I guess you forgot the time that Doug Ford and his drug-addicted brother chased people around Toronto's council chamber, knocking down a female councillor, yelling and threatening to drag voters outside and beat them...
That's part of the Ford legacy... you should be very proud that our children follow in the footsteps of our conservative leader.
Kids learn by example. I guess you forgot the time that Doug Ford and his drug-addicted brother chased people around Toronto's council chamber, knocking down a female councillor, yelling and threatening to drag voters outside and beat them...
That's part of the Ford legacy... you should be very proud that our children follow in the footsteps of our conservative leader.
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Videodrome
Senior Member
Doug must have forgotten about telling someone to go to Hell....
Thinker
Active Member
I really love it when Doug Ford complaints about bad behaviour when during his 4 year tenure at city hall was filled with him yelling obscenities and other inappropriate name calling at staff and those who caught him in lies. Now let's discuss his brother's potty mouth, guess mamma Fraud ran out of soap by the time her youngest son started opening his cake hole.