Premier Doug Ford's Ontario

[W. K. Lis]

When is he gonna make do on his lowering of our hydro bill promise??
Right now I'm paying about double of what I should be paying (2-bedroom downtown condo, I'm paying $100/month)

2018 Comparison of Electricity Prices in Major North American Cities
Rates in effect April 1, 2018

See link.

Just be thankful, this Thanksgiving, that you're not in New York City nor Boston.

BTW. Hydro-Québec is a government-owned public utility established in 1944 by the Government of Quebec, not a privately-owned company.

 

[44 North]

Was watching the Agenda and something popped out. The discussion was investigating the previous party's finances, and someone (Kevin Flynn a former Liberal) was talking about the PC's forming a special committee and equated it to the Spanish Inquisition. Paiken roughly said: 'but unlike the Spanish Inquisition no one's going to die', and the Flynn replied: 'well, it's Doug Ford'.

Thought it funny considering there were like 2,3,4 homicides related to the crack tape, and I think a jailhouse beatdown. Imagine an open secret at QP that Doug was directly involved in that? I mean it shouldn't be a surprise if he was since they have a weird clan dynasty to protect. Regardless that off the cuff joke about homicide doesn't seem off the mark.

 

[Northern Light]

This would be true if left-leaning voters didn't resort to talking about PR only when Conservatives won elections. I want PR. But the optics of a lot of PR proponents are terrible.

We had the referendum in 2007. It wasn't really well campaigned for. And occurred the same time as the election. Instead of a proper referendum independent of elections with proper debates. And after losing that, the LPO forgot all about electoral reform. I don't think I heard much from the NDP either. And then the PCs come into office and we're back to talking about PR.

Trudeau flushed his promise of PR and I recall lots of disappointment and flak from the pro-PR folks, myself included.

The idea that this is only in flavour when PCs win is strange. Many folks voted for Trudeau specifically because of that promise.

Most were happy to complain when he turned his back on that commitment.

Certainly its a less common cause among Conservatives.

But should it be?

 

[animatronic]

2018 Comparison of Electricity Prices in Major North American Cities
Rates in effect April 1, 2018

See link.

View attachment 159414

Just be thankful, this Thanksgiving, that you're not in New York City nor Boston.

BTW. Hydro-Québec is a government-owned public utility established in 1944 by the Government of Quebec, not a privately-owned company.

That's more to do with Quebec's massive water resources. No other city in that list has similar access to cheap sources.

 

[W. K. Lis]

That's more to do with Quebec's massive water resources. No other city in that list has similar access to cheap sources.

From the same report:

MEDIUM-POWER CUSTOMERS
(100 TO 5,000 k W)
Three consumption levels were analyzed for medium-power customers. In all three cases, the bills of Hydro-Québec’s customers have remained below the average of the other major North American cities. Figures 3, 4 and 5 show the comparative index of electricity prices for these consumption profiles.
For medium-power customers with a monthly consumption of 100,000 k W h and a power demand of 500 k W, Montréal is in fifth place, compared with seventh last year.

So it's not just Hydro Québec.

 

[Jasmine18]

This would be true if left-leaning voters didn't resort to talking about PR only when Conservatives won elections. I want PR. But the optics of a lot of PR proponents are terrible.

We had the referendum in 2007. It wasn't really well campaigned for. And occurred the same time as the election. Instead of a proper referendum independent of elections with proper debates. And after losing that, the LPO forgot all about electoral reform. I don't think I heard much from the NDP either. And then the PCs come into office and we're back to talking about PR.

Its gonna be so hilarious when many of the liberals supporting Trudeau and his flip-flop about Electoral Reform are going to likely get a Conservative govt in the future with 38-40% of the vote.

Pretty much the Trudeau govt is playing a two-front war of being seen of being very left wing to keep the NDP down and ensuring they keep the moderates and not lose them to the conservatives. Due to the dynamics of FPTP a small change in NDP and Tory support can drastically change the seat count.

My point is you can easily have a Doug Ford like person elected Federally with a large majority due to FPTP while with PR such a person would not get into power.

 

[calimehtar]

People should be very concerned about Ford's enthusiasm for breaking election promises. That said, both the liberals and the NDP need to do some serious soul searching about why they can't make significant gains in Toronto's inner suburbs, populated more and more by poor immigrants who should, based on leftist parties' platforms, not be even a little bit attracted by conservative policies. Either Canada's left seriously misreads the mindset of poor immigrants, they aren't voting, or the NDP and liberals are just plain terrible at what they do.

 

[syn]

People should be very concerned about Ford's enthusiasm for breaking election promises. That said, both the liberals and the NDP need to do some serious soul searching about why they can't make significant gains in Toronto's inner suburbs, populated more and more by poor immigrants who should, based on leftist parties' platforms, not be even a little bit attracted by conservative policies. Either Canada's left seriously misreads the mindset of poor immigrants, they aren't voting, or the NDP and liberals are just plain terrible at what they do.

A lot of immigrants are socially conservative.

No doubt the Liberals have to regroup and re-calibrate, but after 15 years and public frustration it was almost a given they'd lose.

 

[JGHali]

People should be very concerned about Ford's enthusiasm for breaking election promises. That said, both the liberals and the NDP need to do some serious soul searching about why they can't make significant gains in Toronto's inner suburbs, populated more and more by poor immigrants who should, based on leftist parties' platforms, not be even a little bit attracted by conservative policies. Either Canada's left seriously misreads the mindset of poor immigrants, they aren't voting, or the NDP and liberals are just plain terrible at what they do.

You mean like in Scarborough Southwest, York South-Weston, and Humber River-Black Creek?

 

[old boy]

I wasn't aware the Ford juggernaut had any platform. Specious talking points we heard, and are ever to likely to hear from these phony populists.

 

[TrickyRicky]

I'll give you my theory on why Ford is popular among some and why the left doesn't get it. I've probably already stated this opinion before but people keep asking the same questions.

Let's start with the rich. Notice how the rich used to support the right and now they equally support the left and right; however, the modern cosmopolitan rich guy is probably a left leaning voter in a bifurcated two-party system for instance? The reason is that those policies deemed progressive in our time have two tendencies: The first tendency is inflation of living costs (I'm not talking about CPI inflation). The second tendency linked to the first is dependency. Why doesn't the rich guy care? The reason he doesn't care is that inflation and state dependency (as long as it's the right kind of state dependency) isn't bad for business. Business is fundamentally about capturing market share and setting up a monopoly or oligopoly system (well paid government workers also are monopoly winners). Competition is for losers. If everything costs too much, is too hard, requires too much sophistication, has too high a threshold barrier to entry, that's fantastic stuff for the rich guy and government guy but brutal for the middle-class.

So what does this mean? It means independent minded people of the middle-class who have to compete like loser in the real world at some point resent the inflationary and forced state dependency of progressive policy. Furthermore, the marginalized working poor often have an emotional reaction to policy that lifts-up-all boats but only does so for some. It's not a mature behaviour (because caring about fairness is probably the least mature emotion known to man) but basically if the state lifts up your neighbour and not you or worse lifts up some dude you think is worthless while you work your ass off and still end up no better off. Dude, your going to be pissed.

Ford taps into mostly the independent minded people of the middle-class who need to compete for their bread, the working poor guy pissed at the negative impacts of progressive policy designed to help him but that inflates his living costs and makes him more dependent or worse lifts up people worse off than him to his level, and a few rich guys or at least fake rich guys. Real rich guys are indifferent about left and right so long as they are the right left and right. Ford is not their kind of right leaning guy so most rich guys hate Ford and his populism, which is another reason for his base to love him.

 

[adma]

Ford appeals to the kind of rich folks who have an exercise room but no library.

 

[steveintoronto]

Ford appeals to the kind of rich folks who have an exercise room but no library.

And therefore no books on how to use the exercise machinery, and so they're out of shape physically and mentally...which goes a long way to aligning with Ford's appeal.

 

[gabe]

Safety over religion. One law for all. Sikh's shouldn't get their own special exemption. How are they going to stop non Sikh's from riding helmet-less? Sikh is a religion not a race.


Ontario to exempt Sikh motorcyclists from helmet law

https://www.thestar.com/news/queens...xempt-sikh-motorcyclists-from-helmet-law.html

 

[Thinker]

I'll give you my theory on why Ford is popular among some and why the left doesn't get it. I've probably already stated this opinion before but people keep asking the same questions.

Let's start with the rich. Notice how the rich used to support the right and now they equally support the left and right; however, the modern cosmopolitan rich guy is probably a left leaning voter in a bifurcated two-party system for instance? The reason is that those policies deemed progressive in our time have two tendencies: The first tendency is inflation of living costs (I'm not talking about CPI inflation). The second tendency linked to the first is dependency. Why doesn't the rich guy care? The reason he doesn't care is that inflation and state dependency (as long as it's the right kind of state dependency) isn't bad for business. Business is fundamentally about capturing market share and setting up a monopoly or oligopoly system (well paid government workers also are monopoly winners). Competition is for losers. If everything costs too much, is too hard, requires too much sophistication, has too high a threshold barrier to entry, that's fantastic stuff for the rich guy and government guy but brutal for the middle-class.

So what does this mean? It means independent minded people of the middle-class who have to compete like loser in the real world at some point resent the inflationary and forced state dependency of progressive policy. Furthermore, the marginalized working poor often have an emotional reaction to policy that lifts-up-all boats but only does so for some. It's not a mature behaviour (because caring about fairness is probably the least mature emotion known to man) but basically if the state lifts up your neighbour and not you or worse lifts up some dude you think is worthless while you work your ass off and still end up no better off. Dude, your going to be pissed.

Ford taps into mostly the independent minded people of the middle-class who need to compete for their bread, the working poor guy pissed at the negative impacts of progressive policy designed to help him but that inflates his living costs and makes him more dependent or worse lifts up people worse off than him to his level, and a few rich guys or at least fake rich guys. Real rich guys are indifferent about left and right so long as they are the right left and right. Ford is not their kind of right leaning guy so most rich guys hate Ford and his populism, which is another reason for his base to love him.

Ford appeals to those who think no one deserves a fair minimum wage or equal pay for equal work and other employment perks.


There is no evidence Ford taps into mostly independent minded people. Toronto knew what Ford was like, he was supported by his uneducated FordNation crowd because he gave them cheap beer and promised to save them millions without actually doing the math, taking whatever was written in the Sun as gospel and watching CP24 for their other news source. Outside the city, the Conservative population voted -mostly- conservative because their parents and grandparents did. The rest didn't bother to vote because they didn't like any of the candidates. This election was a mastery of manipulation. The liberals got manipulated big time and played right into conservative game of attacking the NDP on the issues and policies that were almost equal to theirs.