Politics: Tim Hudak's Plan for Ontario if he becomes Premier

[typezed]

But the #1 priority for Ontarians is Economy and Jobs and on that front, The Liberals can't be taken seriously

And how are we to take "We'll create A Million Jobs by eliminating 100,000 jobs" seriously?

 

[Solid Snake]

$7 a day childcare, free dental care for children, $79.50 a month transit pass, and not eligible to receive federal transfer payments? I must have missed who was promising that ...

The way we handle our deficit and debt. Speaking of debt, how outrageous is that Ontario has a debt-to-revenue ratio of 237.7%, while Quebec with all their social programs have a ratio of 189.% and a lower deficit???

 

[Solid Snake]

And how are we to take "We'll create A Million Jobs by eliminating 100,000 jobs" seriously?

eliminating public service 100 000 positions, not firing 100 000 people...big difference

 

[Solid Snake]

Number 1 issue is transit. GTA is gridlocked, and getting worse. We need to do something now, while we still have an economy and jobs to go to.

But ... hang on. Hudak on jobs? Is this a parody?

See below...

I didn't vote for the PCs, but the point of view isn't exactly unreasonable. If you accept the premise that the Liberals are somewhere between venal and corrupt, you'd have good reason to be skeptical any of that would happen in the first place.

We're not, in fact, very close at all to seeing those policies implemented. They're campaign promises, intended to secure a Liberal win. Some are good and some are bad but they're not written in stone.

Frankly, I think people on this forum overstate the salience of transit as an election issue for Ontarian's. It's natural given this forum and sub-forum's topic, but still not representative of the wider population, and it's a bit silly to criticize someone for prioritizing another concern over transit.

Looking at Vote Compass, the main priorities were: #1 jobs, taxes and 'the economy," #2 healthcare, #3 Accountability, #4 education, #5 energy and #6 Transit/infrastructure.

 

[denfromoakvillemilton]

You're conveniently ignoring that those surplus we're mostly due to McGuinty drastically increasing taxes when he had promised not too. It's the easiest thing to do. Quebec has mastered the art of increasing taxes as the most taxed province/state in North America. Once your population gets overtaxed and can't give you anymore, this is where the problems starts. Trying to impose more taxes and increasing government rates on an already overtaxed population will make you heavily unpopular and then you'll find sneaky ways to do it. Then when that's done, you condition the population that deficits and debts are not the end of the world when we compare ourselves. Do we have to repeat what was done next door?

It's a perfect of what Margaret Thatcher was saying :


By the way, I don't remember Moody's downgrading Ontario under Harris. They didn't even downgraded Quebec during the recession but they did with McGuinty in charge...

He didn't increase tax that much and cut some waste before the world had a meltdown. Stick with the green and ornge scandals, those are what hurt the Liberals the most.

 

[Solid Snake]

And how are we to take "We'll create A Million Jobs by eliminating 100,000 jobs" seriously?

http://www.torontosun.com/2014/06/10/wynne-is-lying-and-cuts-are-coming-union-president

Wynne is lying and cuts are coming: Union president

TORONTO — Liberal Leader Kathleen Wynne is lying when she says she will not cut public sector jobs, the top boss of the Ontario Public Sector Employees' Union said Tuesday.

Warren "Smokey" Thomas accused Wynne of burying $1.2 billion in cuts in the dead-on-arrival budget earlier this year.

"It's in the fine print," he said, pointing out that at $40,000 for an average salary, the Liberal cuts would have chopped more than 30,000 jobs from the public payroll.

When asked if Wynne was lying, Thomas said: "Yes. In my personal opinion, yes, I think she is."

He accused Wynne of "not being straight" with voters.

The Liberal leader has campaigned as the saviour of public sector jobs, promising the public sector will be just as big four years from now if she's elected.

While Wynne has tried to scare voters with warnings that Progressive Conservative Leader Tim Hudak would weaken government services with his plan to cut 100,000 government jobs, Thomas said at least Hudak is "honest and straightforward" with what's he's proposing to do.

Previously, Thomas has said he believes there could be as many as 60,000 middle management positions in the public sector that could be eliminated to find savings.

On Tuesday, Thomas said his union — the third largest in Ontario and the second largest public sector union in Canada — is "politically agnostic" and doesn't get officially involved with any party. Personally, Thomas supports the NDP and said he's already voted for that party in the advanced polls.

 

[AlvinofDiaspar]

Hmm, between the Hudak slash and burn and the NDP cut no jobs...it sounds like a balanced approach to me!

AoD

 

[Solid Snake]

Hmm, between the Hudak slash and burn and the NDP cut no jobs...it sounds like a balanced approach to me!

AoD

 

[jje1000]

Wynne was part of McGuinty's government who massively increased taxes, wasted billions, doubled the debt, ran deficits. Her platform shows and recent decision shows no signs that it would be different with her in power... *cough* cancelling the Scarborough LRT for a subway *Cough*

They are just as politically opportunist as ever before

Yes, and I hold her to it. If she fails, she will be out of a job come next election. But on transit, the PCs and Liberals are completely different- mind you that the Scarborough switcharoo still ends up providing transit, while a cancellation is a cancellation.

"After the deficit is eliminated" excuse???. It's not an excuse, it's real. I seriously question your knowledge on the consequences of growing deficits and debts and keep over spending. You might fancy LRT's all over the place but I'm pretty sure the Spaniards would rather have a job instead of having subways everywhere like they did. Their unemployment rate is just insane and guess what??? They had to introduce "Austerity measures" afterwards.

You can be as dramatic as you want, but transit is only part of the reason why I cannot support the Hudak Conservatives, the main reason being that the Hudak Conservatives are disturbingly close to the Harper Conservatives. Over these recent years, they've been increasingly valuing short-term ideology over facts.

In fact, the Harper Conservatives have been aiding the Hudak Conservatives this election, and I don't believe that that relationship will be over even when Hudak enters office.

Moreso, I don't find Hudak to be anymore trustworthy than the 'McWynnety' Liberals. If Hudak refuses to admit that his job numbers and saving estimates are bogus, how will I trust him to make the right decisions in reducing the deficit?

How can I be sure that the Harris-era tactic of selling public property to balance budgets does not return? If he's saying that he's going to cut the bureaucracy, how will I trust him not to eliminate front-line staff? If he says that red-tape is going to be cut, how do we know that it's not safety regulations that keep us safe? The devil is in the details, and details have been sparse and in the worst case, wrong.

Furthermore, his approach to things like suburban sprawl and transit is something I disagree with, but that's been talked to death.

As a result, I have little faith that the Hudak conservatives will be able to provide good governance over Ontario. Things like addition cuts to our already low corporate tax rate already reek of ideology rather than good decision-making, and I believe that the Hudak Conservatives will focus their efforts more towards petty gains, fortifying their position and wedge politics rather than the bipartisanship.

In general, am I concerned about the deficit? Yes. Am I concerned about transit? Equally so. Am I concerned about the Hudak Conservatives using the deficit as a trojan horse and then governing as Harris did and Harper does? More so.

You can't extrapolate turnout numbers for advanced polls and use them to assume that voter turnout will be lower/higher on the 12th.

Case in point: Quebec saw a big jump in advanced poll turnout, but fewer people showed up to vote overall

You're right on that point, but the interesting note from these numbers indicate that Liberal voters aren't coming out to vote in the numbers that the Conservatives are.

 

[AlvinofDiaspar]

I think jje said it well - Hudak chose a radical route when the overwhelming majority of the public prefers moderation. Why should one be surprised by the pushback when they purposefully chose to polarize?

And before anyone start on waste, tell me, how does the multi-hundred million public subsidy of the horse breeding and racing industry actually represents value for money for Ontario?

AoD

 

[BurlOak]

He didn't increase tax that much and cut some waste before the world had a meltdown. Stick with the green and ornge scandals, those are what hurt the Liberals the most.

It was not that insignificant.

http://diablogue.org/2013/05/13/ded...increase-for-ontarios-health-care-in-2013-14/

Of the $48.8 billion to be spent on health care this year [2013/14], the Feds can claim to be directly paying $12 billion through the Canada Health Transfer, or slightly less than 25 per cent.
The Employer Health Tax will contribute $5.3 billion (10.9 %) and the Ontario Health Premium will raise a total of $3.2 billion (6.5 %).

$3.2B per year is not an insignificant amount of money, especially considering that health services for eye-care, chiropractic and physical therapy/physiotherapy were also cut.

 

[MrsNesbitt]

It was not that insignificant.

http://diablogue.org/2013/05/13/ded...increase-for-ontarios-health-care-in-2013-14/



$3.2B per year is not an insignificant amount of money, especially considering that health services for eye-care, chiropractic and physical therapy/physiotherapy were also cut.

I was not a big fan of those health services cuts personally.

I think there's a fairly good ideological difference between McGuinty and Wynne. I myself rather tend to agree with the way that Wynne thinks on a lot of things. Wasn't really the biggest McGuinty fan. Putting it this way, I'm no Liberal diehard, I can assure you.

But there's no way in hell that I would vote for anyone else in this election. Hudak is out to cut down everything that I value in the government of this province and turn us into a copy of the Harris-years Ontario, or maybe the scorched-earth USA. It never fails to amaze me how short the memories of some people in this province can be to forget those days.

And as for Horwath, she's too despicable to even consider. Forcing an election by voting against a budget that is tailored to your party, and then moving your party so far away from its beliefs that your longtime supporters need to desert you? Those are red flags, people.

 

[JKDM]

This is getting maddening.

I hope that those of you on here who vote for Hudak are ready for a massive regression in transit. Right when we're THIS CLOSE to getting work on the DRL, GO RER, etc. started, people throw their hands up in a cry of "CORRUPT LIBERALS" and throw away our progress.

Maddening? Sheer hyperbole.

Throw away "our" progress?

This cry of corruption is real.

People want change in this province.

I'm pleased that I've parked my vote with Hudak's Tories.

 

[JKDM]

Hudak could have said no too, but he stood up and said they should be cancelled.

However, how anyone can possibly equate a bad decision with corruption I don't know. Corruption is what happens when politicans get money or benefits in their own pocket that they shouldn't. Like Peter Shurman, Patrick Duffy, Pamela Wallin, Brian Mulroney, Alison Redford, Rob Ford, Susan Fennell, etc. Presumably there are Liberal or NDP examples as well, but none are coming to mind right now, with the possible exception of Mac Harb - who did the right thing and quickly resigned.

I know I joke about Tories being corrupt ... but it's only now that I made a list, I'm really surprised at how almost all the recent examples are Tories.

Joe Fontana?

 

[JKDM]

http://www.torontosun.com/2014/06/10/wynne-is-lying-and-cuts-are-coming-union-president

60,000!

My Gramma (God rest her soul) was an union negotiator and knew Smokey well, and liked him, so I trust his numbers.

This 100,000 cut can easily achieved.