Planned Sprawl in the GTA

[innsertnamehere]

Ontario Newsroom

news.ontario.ca

 

[lenaitch]

From the link:

"Providing immediate clarity to residents and taxpayers of Peel . . . recalibrate the mandate of the transition board to focus on options to enhance the self-determination of local governments to support building more homes faster and improve local service delivery."

Silly me. I thought that would be the job of the regional council. They just can't stop putting their thumb on municipalities. Self-determination being defined as 'you're going to do it this way now'.

 

[DirectionNorth]

From the link:

"Providing immediate clarity to residents and taxpayers of Peel . . . recalibrate the mandate of the transition board to focus on options to enhance the self-determination of local governments to support building more homes faster and improve local service delivery."

Silly me. I thought that would be the job of the regional council. They just can't stop putting their thumb on municipalities. Self-determination being defined as 'you're going to do it this way now'.

The "self" in "self-determination" obviously refers to the person Doug Ford was thinking of when he decided who would determine the municipalities' futures ...

 

[SubHuman]

How '15-minute cities' turned into an international conspiracy theory​

From link.

Type "15-minute cities" into social media and be prepared for a barrage of claims the idea will usher in dystopia, people will be fined for leaving their "district" or it is "urban incarceration."

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Last_Chase
Oh no! And it happened after a pandemic (even if they were a little off on the exact year).

 

[Undead]

^That has already been explained. A certain brand of politics loses all credibility, continues pushing ideas and making claims, then is Pikachu surprised face when no one trusts them, even going as far as falling for conspiracy theories. This ought to be a moment of self reflection for the activist set, but they're woefully incapable of that.

It’s a conspiracy surrounding a left-leaning idea, as is somewhat common. The left does have issues w/credibility, communication, and alienating certain bases. Likewise for planning as a discipline. This makes it pretty easy to misconstrue a vague concept like a “15-minute city” especially when it pops up in WEF documents, giving the right a field day.

My two cents: An interesting angle I heard on Twitter is that this “conspiracy” also more fundamentally appeals to right-wing opposition to central planning. It appeals to everyone’s ‘fundamental NIMBYism’ by advocating for both physical and lifestyle changes to their communities- we see this in regards to development all the time, and now there’s a catch-all phrase. people don’t realize this is a continuation of planning as it has always been.

When things about 15-min cities started rumbling, I expected an urbanist counter from the right, but was fairly disappointed to see the current narrative be fully embraced by even more conscious folks like Jordan Peterson. Being an academic living in Seaton Village, the hypocrisy and ignorance is sad. Especially when our conservative premier is actively advancing measures to create these types of communities.

 

[Northern Light]

^That has already been explained. A certain brand of politics loses all credibility, continues pushing ideas and making claims, then is Pikachu surprised face when no one trusts them, even going as far as falling for conspiracy theories. This ought to be a moment of self reflection for the activist set, but they're woefully incapable of that.

While I agree that excessive ardency can produce excessive pushback, and often warn against same.......... I think its a stretch to suggest that justifies bizarre beliefs that have absolutely zero evidentiary support and are illogical and extreme in nature.

The fact that a given gov't may may have handled Covid policy in a way that was imperfect or even excessive (in terms of restrictions) or that has otherwise rubbed a certain demographic the wrong way, does not reasonably support the idea that people will be legally restricted to a zone within 15M of their front door. That's not just irrational its a special version of same.

 

[afransen]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Last_Chase
Oh no! And it happened after a pandemic (even if they were a little off on the exact year).

'Philosophy Tube' (Youtube channel) has an interesting video on gentrification and why people get sucked into the 15 minute city conspiracy. Currently on Nebula but will be on Youtube in the next week or so.

 

[Undead]

Of course it's irrational. But it's a testament to how the powers that be screwed things up that people's distrust goes to such extreme lengths. I'm not saying the beliefs are justified. I'm saying there's a broader context most people miss in making knee jerk reactions to things like 15 minute city conspiracies. If you don't get where the problem came from, what hope do you have of solving it?

 

[afransen]

Of course it's irrational. But it's a testament to how the powers that be screwed things up that people's distrust goes to such extreme lengths. I'm not saying the beliefs are justified. I'm saying there's a broader context most people miss in making knee jerk reactions to things like 15 minute city conspiracies. If you don't get where the problem came from, what hope do you have of solving it?

At least some of it is exploitation by monied interests such as fossil fuel lobby. You might be surprised how inexpensive it is to whip up some anger among the slightly less hinged among us on social media.

 

[MrGoose]

Of course it's irrational. But it's a testament to how the powers that be screwed things up that people's distrust goes to such extreme lengths. I'm not saying the beliefs are justified. I'm saying there's a broader context most people miss in making knee jerk reactions to things like 15 minute city conspiracies. If you don't get where the problem came from, what hope do you have of solving it?

Blaming it on "peoples distrust of the government" is excusing the producers and consumers of the misinformation too easily.

Its a combination of car brain, multi-level misrepresentation of true stories, and generalized right-wing paranoia.

The producers are either regurgitating 2nd, 3rd, 4th, nth level misrepresentations of an Oxford UK local initiative to restrict driving through the town by dividing it into 15min zones, which they do because anger drives clicks, means more impressions and ad dollars.

The consumers eat this ***t up because they have car brain and generalized right-wing paranoia / conspiracy theory brain.

Ultimately the problem is mass social media is not suitable for the average person. Maybe you can try to market urbanism better to conspriracy kooks but they'll generate lies and misinformation faster than you can debunk it b/c there are huge industries dependent on people driving everywhere to do anything.

You just have to make cities better and ignore them.

 

[wopchop]

Let's also not forget that the people we are hearing from who spout this kind of nonsense are still an absolute fraction of the population.

Yes, mass social media is toxic, but even the people we are all interacting with on it or the internet in general are not the silent majority.

 

[Islington Express Bus]

^That has already been explained. A certain brand of politics loses all credibility, continues pushing ideas and making claims, then is Pikachu surprised face when no one trusts them, even going as far as falling for conspiracy theories. This ought to be a moment of self reflection for the activist set, but they're woefully incapable of that.

Of course it's irrational. But it's a testament to how the powers that be screwed things up that people's distrust goes to such extreme lengths. I'm not saying the beliefs are justified. I'm saying there's a broader context most people miss in making knee jerk reactions to things like 15 minute city conspiracies. If you don't get where the problem came from, what hope do you have of solving it?

What is the "certain brand of politics" you're referring to. Urbanism? Liberalism? Socialism? The left-wing in general? And what is this loss of credibility you're eluding to?

And does this apply to other ideologies as well? When a right-wing president of the united states says horse de-wormer cures covid, does that permanently ruin trust in right-wing politics?

I think MrGoose's theory, blaming it on the usual right-wing paranoia and car brain is a much better explanation.

 

[xy3]

What is the "certain brand of politics" you're referring to. Urbanism? Liberalism? Socialism? The left-wing in general? And what is this loss of credibility you're eluding to?

And does this apply to other ideologies as well? When a right-wing president of the united states says horse de-wormer cures covid, does that permanently ruin trust in right-wing politics?

I think MrGoose's theory, blaming it on the usual right-wing paranoia and car brain is a much better explanation.

No matter what your politcal stripe is, cars are incredibly dangerous, and will remain so until we have self-flying cars.

There is a middle ground, such as a case for a private mass transit alternative.

I'd gladly pay $300 per. month instead of $160 for a metropass from a private transit system if it meant no delays due to ne'er do wells on the tracks, no short-turning train or bus programs, surveillance to detect false alarms on train, 25% higher frequency, and actual enforcement at bus bays to prevent non-paying deadbeats from entering. Even a private brt system would be amazing.

 

[MrGoose]

No matter what your politcal stripe is, cars are incredibly dangerous, and will remain so until we have self-flying cars.

Yea cars are dangerous but what will make them safer is when crashes automatically mean killing everyone aboard!

There is a middle ground, such as a case for a private mass transit alternative.

I'd gladly pay $300 per. month instead of $160 for a metropass from a private transit system if it meant no delays due to ne'er do wells on the tracks,

Platform doors, Not a problem privatization will solve by itself.

no short-turning train or bus programs,

Not a problem privatization will solve by itself.

surveillance to detect false alarms on train,

Not a problem privatization will solve by itself

25% higher frequency,

Not a problem privatization will solve by itself

and actual enforcement at bus bays to prevent non-paying deadbeats from entering.

Better fare gates and enforcement, Not a problem privatization will solve by itself

Even a private brt system would be amazing.

Why a private BRT over a public BRT?

 

[Undead]

@MrGoose you're missing my point pretty comprehensively.

Blaming it on "peoples distrust of the government" is excusing the producers and consumers of the misinformation too easily.

Not inherent to any side of the political aisle.

generalized online right-wing paranoia

FTFY.

Let's also not forget that the people we are hearing from who spout this kind of nonsense is still an absolute fraction of the population.

Yes, mass social media is an toxic, but even the people we are all interacting with on it or the internet in general are not the silent majority.

Accurate, but you're gonna have to take it up with legacy media who blow things up out of all proportion.

What is the "certain brand of politics" you're referring to. Urbanism? Liberalism? Socialism? The left-wing in general? And what is this loss of credibility you're eluding to?

The loss of trust in progressive politics is well documented.

And does this apply to other ideologies as well? When a right-wing president of the united states says horse de-wormer cures covid, does that permanently ruin trust in right-wing politics?

Sure, but how bad did the other side shit the bed to drive people into the arms of that guy? And if you take a look at the other side, who were cheering on mass protests/riots while banning people visiting their local park, you'll see the credibility problem I'm referring to.

The bottom line is if you're going to kvetch about crazy right wing stuff, I'll be naming the million examples of equally nutty goodiness on the left.