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Planned Sprawl in the GTA

I was in the area last week and there are a lot of signs up protesting a new town of 40,000. And my clients are dead set against this Developement proposal as well. The area was developed for heavy industry, they are still working to attract more. As my client noted, it’s as if they want to put housing one pier over from Stelco in Hamilton. (Redpath seems to work in Toronto as the process is relatively benign and people seem to like the big ships - it’s as if Redpath has been adopted by the neighbourhood. Not sure that works for the blast furnaces of Stelco)
I'm not so convinced that Redpath is embraced by all. Some call it an industrial eyesore and covet the land.

An people wonder why so many of our products and raw materials come from off-shore.
 
I'm not so convinced that Redpath is embraced by all. Some call it an industrial eyesore and covet the land.

An people wonder why so many of our products and raw materials come from off-shore.

I think most people love the mural on the front face of the sugar warehouse.

I think it would be great if they could paint the face of the factory itself.

Edit to add: I don't favour displacing Redpath, but it does occur to me, if you wanted a win-win, get them to take over Rebel's space out in the Portlands.

New, state-of-the art facility and you displace a venue most people consider a public menace.,
 
Redpath also creates a wonderful stink on some hot summer days down there which isn't particularly fun.

The Empire proposal in Nanticoke has completely flipped local politics down there on it's head. Both Norfolk and Haldimand's mayors lost re-election over the issue and when Haldimand's then-mayor ran in the provincial election as the PC candidate in 2022, in one of the strongest PC ridings in the province, an independent was instead elected primarily based on his support for the proposal.

It's a wildly unpopular proposal and I agree that the industrial conflicts involved are generally too great. The area is especially wary given the history of false promises from this kind of instant town coming out of the failed Townsend development of the 1980's.
 
I think most people love the mural on the front face of the sugar warehouse.

I think it would be great if they could paint the face of the factory itself.

Edit to add: I don't favour displacing Redpath, but it does occur to me, if you wanted a win-win, get them to take over Rebel's space out in the Portlands.

New, state-of-the art facility and you displace a venue most people consider a public menace.,

The capital costs involved in a relocation would have to have some benefit to the company (or be paid by somebody else). I still maintain that if they go, they will go far. Moving to someplace else in the Toronto waterfront area will just expose them to other neighbours who won't like them.

I guess I'm not getting the 'public menace' angle. Perhaps to some anything that isn't residential or public play space, or involves big smelly trucks and rusty ships, is an affrontery. Maybe it's just me.
 
The capital costs involved in a relocation would have to have some benefit to the company (or be paid by somebody else). I still maintain that if they go, they will go far. Moving to someplace else in the Toronto waterfront area will just expose them to other neighbours who won't like them.

I guess I'm not getting the 'public menace' angle. Perhaps to some anything that isn't residential or public play space, or involves big smelly trucks and rusty ships, is an affrontery. Maybe it's just me.

My public menace reference wasn't to Redpath, it was to Rebel, the nightclub.

I also pointed out I didn't particularly favour displacing Redpath, I simply suggested if one were going to do so, Rebel's spot might be an apt place.
 
The capital costs involved in a relocation would have to have some benefit to the company (or be paid by somebody else). I still maintain that if they go, they will go far. Moving to someplace else in the Toronto waterfront area will just expose them to other neighbours who won't like them.

I guess I'm not getting the 'public menace' angle. Perhaps to some anything that isn't residential or public play space, or involves big smelly trucks and rusty ships, is an affrontery. Maybe it's just me.
Sugar is heavy and low value. They wouldn't want to be too far from the GTA,.
 
Sugar is heavy and low value. They wouldn't want to be too far from the GTA,.
The GTA is a large market to be sure but, like most other consumer goods, it can be refined anywhere and shipped like any other commodity. The have another plant in Belleville where certain finished products are produced.

Their feedstock comes from the Caribbean and South America, and the company is now US-owned, so I'm not sure there is some historic or cultural corporate hold that Toronto has on it.

I'm not sure the Port of Oshawa is anymore commercial-friendly than Toronto, but I'm not that familiar with it.
 
The GTA is a large market to be sure but, like most other consumer goods, it can be refined anywhere and shipped like any other commodity. The have another plant in Belleville where certain finished products are produced.

Their feedstock comes from the Caribbean and South America, and the company is now US-owned, so I'm not sure there is some historic or cultural corporate hold that Toronto has on it.

I'm not sure the Port of Oshawa is anymore commercial-friendly than Toronto, but I'm not that familiar with it.
There is a reason why the GTA has such a large food processing industry. It is close to the centre of gravity of the market. I would consider Belleville or Oshawa to be pretty close to the GTA, and could be viable locations. Logistics out of Belleville may not be as attractive, however. I can't really see them relocating to Ohio, as that would create a lot of additional logistics expense to serve the Canadian market. Perhaps if they could reduce their cost substantially by building a large consolidated plant that also serves US demand, but I suspect that the potential savings in processing cost is small relative to the incremental $500/truckload in logistics costs.
 
Another clash of industrial vs. residential interests, this time closer to home.


Council could have approved the proposed development at a June 26 meeting, but endorsed city staff direction that said Ahmed needed to provide more details on how the project would potentially impact the future prospects of its industrial neighbour, Mother Parker’s Tea and Coffee, who have plans for a multi-million-dollar expansion.
Lawyer David Tang represented Mother Parkers at the June meeting and asked council to say no to the proposal and suggested it would jeopardize the future of the industrial facilities and the jobs they provide in the area.

UT project thread here:

 
I am shocked. Never thought this would happen. Maybe the 413 will be next. A couple of things come to mind a) the fine print, b) protecting farmland from ’estate’ ‘farms’, c) keeping the pressure on the province, cities etc, to open up single family zoning close to major transport nodes or lines for multi-unit dwellings, d) keep up the pressure on fed’s, province, cities to fund geared to income housing in a variety of forms, e) fix the Landlord Tenant Review board which is broken, busted, and a barrier to rental housing, f) decide to fund multi unit rental housing IF current interest rates are found to be a barrier and I am sure there are more.
 
I think the difference between the greenbelt and the 413 is that even Ford's base thought the Greenbelt deal stunk and they probably had some very concerning polling on the matter. They have done themselves a lot of damage, which reversing the policy will only partially repair.
 
The only reason the greenbelt removals died is because it became a political hot potato with improper political meddling behind it. If the PCs had done a proper process on the removals (i.e. an open call for removal requests, a few months of evaluation, then a removals list) instead of just a bombshell dropping of a list of a select few properties - the decision would still stand.

The 413 is not a political bombshell - quite the contrary - it's a well backed infrastructure project with an immense amount of research, backing of provincial transportation staff, long term infrastructure forecasts indicate its need, etc. The cancellation of the 413 in the Liberal era is the political move - much like the greenbelt removals are the political move in 2023.

The thing is that the PCs with a bit more foresight could have done the greenbelt removals with decent justification and opponents would have had little to stand on. Their rushing of the process, and the improprieties which occurred as a result, instead threaten to take the whole government down. Literally a few extra months of review, a bit of extra staff time, and an open call of removal requests could have completely sidelined the entire scandal - and even if a few developers did have closer-than-they-should relationships with the MMAH, those removals could have been better slipped through with a proper process which didn't raise any eyebrows.
 

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