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Planned School Closures by the TDSB

wopchop said:
On the subject of non-catholics attending catholic school, I grew up with non-catholics who went to both catholic elementary and high school. It is a lot easier to enroll as a non-catholic at a catholic high school, then it is to enroll at a catholic elementary school. But this is slowly changing, as I think now that approximately half of the catholic elementary boards in the province will admit non-catholics without making you jump through hoops (ie. prove that at least one parent or grandparent was catholic). On the flip side, no board in the province can stop you from enrolling in a catholic high school for being non-catholic, and confirmed in court as of last year, no catholic high school board can compel you to attend liturgy or take religious classes.
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My nephew who challenged his catholic high school on the religious classes issue did so in the previous decade. The school's administration obviously wanted no part of having any student being allowed to skip those classes. However, once they were seriously challenged, that school's administration (and school board?) backed down and said nothing more of it. I have to think that some higher ups in the catholic school board were afraid of a legal challenge, partially because his family had the means to mount such a legal challenge. But in the end he didn't have to.

However, it finally happened. Someone else legally challenged it, and Hallelujah! (;)) the court has now set a legal precedent that one does not have to take religion classes at a publicly funded catholic school in Ontario.

IMO, this effectively makes the Catholic School Board completely pointless. Let's just get rid of it already.

BTW, dissolution of the Catholic School Boards is part of the platform of the Green Party. I'm not endorsing the Green Party. Far from it, but I just wanted to mention that it isn't completely ignored in provincial politics. I'm happy to see that at least one well-known party is willing to put it in their platform, although arguably they have nothing to lose by doing that.
 
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wopchop said:
Many perceive it to be a better school board than the public one, based on hearsay and anecdotal evidence of course, but that perception does exist (especially among catholic boomers) and it translates into support and votes.
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In my neighbourhood, the Catholic school is ranked #802 of 2292, while the public school is ranked #1664 of 2292. I have no idea why, but the grade 6 test scores for the Catholic school have been consistently higher. The Catholic school actually has a wider catchment area that includes poorer areas outside of the immediate neighbourhood so I don't think income is a factor. Why is it a better school? Ultimately it doesn't matter, as motivated parents continue to send their children their because it is supposedly the better school of the two.

Incidentally, the public school is at 74% of capacity today, but is projected to go up to 95% in 5 years and 98% in 10 years. As such, even with a school board merger there would need to be two schools for the area.
 
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Eug said:
What do you mean by quasi-private tier? I'm asking because for example my nephew went to a catholic high school in Ontario and didn't pay a cent.

He didn't take any religion classes either. They tried to make him, but he refused, and his mother threatened to take it up with the province, so the school backed down because legally they can't actually force anyone to take religion classes.


I'd like to think most people were against it mainly because people want a universal system that puts everyone (in theory) on equal ground.


Just FYI, the TSDB high school for my neighbourhood has mandatory school uniforms.
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If the student did not take religious classes he should not have been at the school. And of course, then you have parents allowing their kids to think they can do what they want - if they do not want to do something they have the right.

Trust me, its not just the uniform that sets the 2 schools apart. I have worked in the TDSB for 3 years at schools throughout Toronto, and the stuff I see is unreal. I even mentioned this to a permanent school employee about and how are these kids allowed to do whatever they want (middle school). They will come down to the office and hang around because they do not want to be in class and they are allowed to do this. I mentioned to another employee there that I may be mistaken but this would never be allowed in the Catholic school system and she said that was so true.
 
In theory, if the Province decided to operate a one-school system, Toronto schools will have a massive merger for the school boards and the schools itself to save costs. For example, instead of a K-12 First nations schools, My proposal would be like this

Eastern Toronto Academy (Danforth CTI/Monarch Park CI/Eastern Commerce CI/Greenwood SS/St.Patrick's CSS), Specialize programs(Regional Arts, Cyber Arts, STEM, International Studies, Gifted, AP courses, IB program, Entrepreneurship, Cyber studies, IT certifications, Elite Athlete program), Magnet School
 
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Palma said:
If the student did not take religious classes he should not have been at the school. And of course, then you have parents allowing their kids to think they can do what they want - if they do not want to do something they have the right.

Trust me, its not just the uniform that sets the 2 schools apart. I have worked in the TDSB for 3 years at schools throughout Toronto, and the stuff I see is unreal. I even mentioned this to a permanent school employee about and how are these kids allowed to do whatever they want (middle school). They will come down to the office and hang around because they do not want to be in class and they are allowed to do this. I mentioned to another employee there that I may be mistaken but this would never be allowed in the Catholic school system and she said that was so true.
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That's just bull. In the 21st century, religious indoctrination does not belong in public schools. And guess what? The courts agree... to an extent.

Ultimately, IMO the Catholic school board no longer deserves to exist, because religious indoctrination does not deserve to get public funding. If they want to continue forcing religion classes on its students, they should be private schools. I applaud those non-religious or non-Catholic parents who stand up for their tax dollars.

BTW, when I was a kid we were forced to say the Lord's Prayer in public schools. Except I generally didn't cuz I was not religious. Fast forward a few years, and that requirement is gone.
 
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Tewder said:
As for perceived issues with the public system why not address them? Why not use precious finite resources and funding to improve one streamlined system that is fair to all, a system which likely suffers now due to the diverting off of funds, resources, teachers etc into a separate 'pseudo-private'/elitist and faith-based system?... and one that is unconstitutional i might add, not that it seems to concern too many Ontarians.
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Because the TDSB is incapable of addressing anything except paying outrageous money for installing pencil sharpeners, etc. etc
 
One of the main points of mergers - with strong leadership - is to reduce inefficiency and duplication of services.

It may not always work, but it often does.
 
Eug said:
One of the main points of mergers - with strong leadership - is to reduce inefficiency and duplication of services.

It may not always work, but it often does.
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Even with the merger's, I think the solution to the mismanagement issues of the TDSB is
1.) Abolish the Trustee system and follow the Australian model of the public school system where every school in Toronto should have its own board that includes staff, parents, business, and other community members.

2)Decentralize/Abolish the Ontario Curriculum and let every Public school have its own curriculum as long as they teach the mandatory subjects (Language Arts, Math, Science, History, Civics, Geography, and the Arts).

This way, it will compete with the private schools!
 
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Palma said:
Because the TDSB is incapable of addressing anything except paying outrageous money for installing pencil sharpeners, etc. etc
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Nobody is arguing that other reforms aren't needed! The resistance to challenge the separate school system isn't all that different from the resistance to challenge the status quo in the public system: apathy.
 
Young Stats said:
Even with the merger's, I think the solution to the mismanagement issues of the TDSB is
1.) Abolish the Trustee system and follow the Australian model of the public school system where every school in Toronto should have its own board that includes staff, parents, business, and other community members.

2)Decentralize/Abolish the Ontario Curriculum and let every Public school have its own curriculum as long as they teach the mandatory subjects (Language Arts, Math, Science, History, Civics, Geography, and the Arts).

This way, it will compete with the private schools!
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At issue isn't competition with private schools (which is probably nigh impossible given the amount of resources that can be brought to bear, or the fundamental difference in the goal of public/universal education) - it is the streamlining of publicaly funded school systems and improving student outcomes.

AoD
 
DarnDirtyApe said:
In my neighbourhood, the Catholic school is ranked #802 of 2292, while the public school is ranked #1664 of 2292. I have no idea why, but the grade 6 test scores for the Catholic school have been consistently higher. The Catholic school actually has a wider catchment area that includes poorer areas outside of the immediate neighbourhood so I don't think income is a factor. Why is it a better school? Ultimately it doesn't matter, as motivated parents continue to send their children their because it is supposedly the better school of the two.
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How do you know it's a better school? The test scores don't indicate this - they simply indicate whether or not the teachers spend lots of time simply teaching the kids on how to do well on the test or not.

If all else was equal, I'd think the one with the lower test scores would be the better school, as they haven't wasted as much of the kids time trying to maximize the results on a standardized test, and instead would be more rounded.

Johnny Au said:
More schools, especially in the east end, have been added to the TDSB closure list: http://www.thestar.com/yourtoronto/...ed-to-review-list-a-last-minute-surprise.html
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Oh look, they added all my local high schools.

I'm surprised they weren't already on the list. The number of high schools around me is absurd. Eastern Commerce is literally only 500 metres from Greenwood. Danforth Collegiate is only 400m from Eastern and 450 metres from Danforth. And then Greenwood is only 650 metres from Monarch Park. And then it's only 1,100 metres from Eastern to Riverdale, and another 1,100 metres to Eastdale.

Seems to me at a minimum they could simply move both Eastern and Greenwood into Danforth - and few would have to walk any further. None are any further from the subway than the others.
 
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Not just that, but the TDSB can sell Eastdale Collegiate to DHX Media and rename Eastdale Collegiate to Degrassi Community School or Degrassi High. Why? It is actually on De Grassi Street and would attract Degrassi fans from around the world, especially given that Degrassi is among the most popular teen shows in the world. You know how much tourist money would bring to Toronto's economy?

Not just that, but Riverdale Collegiate can be sold to Archie Comics and have that school be renamed Riverdale High. You know how many Archie Comics fans would visit Toronto?

It would create an instant rivalry between Degrassi fans and Archie fans, bringing in much more tourist money.

I am being sarcastic.
 
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I know that this isn't popular, but the TDSB should consider realigning catchment area (considering that some schools are over-populated) and turning other schools into specialized institutions/alternative schools. As for Catholic schools and some ethnic groups - don't forget that in some countries, Catholic schools are (seen as) superior to the local, public school and immigrants (perhaps falsely) believe that it's the case here. I was sent to Catholic school when I was in elementary (before moving on to private) and my parents are immigrants from Hong Kong. My dad was not a product of a Catholic education, but my mother was. I believe her alma mater was one of the best on in Hong Kong at the time.
 
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