News   Dec 20, 2024
 2.6K     8 
News   Dec 20, 2024
 1K     2 
News   Dec 20, 2024
 1.9K     0 

Ottawa Transit Developments

It's in future budgets, but keeps being pushed back. Awaiting funding.
The city is broke. The trains are proving not to be a cost saver. In fact, since the trains have not been able to meet passenger demand since January, we are spending more on stop gap buses just to somewhat maintain what the Transitway used to deliver. And that all means that resources are being removed from the neighbourhood bus network.
 
A Carling LRT really makes no sense unless it can go right into the downtown area, or at least connect with the Confederation line. An LRT that starts at Carling station requiring two transfers to get into the core is going to provide worse service than what it replaces. Like the airport extension :oops:
We keep getting told that more transfers are good for us. Except frequency on the bus network has been cut because the cost of train service exceeds the cost of the previous bus network. Poor frequency = bad transfers = poor rider experience. My neighbourhood now requires two transfers to get downtown. That is a big disincentive from using transit.
 
The trains are proving not to be a cost saver.
6 months into Stage 1 of 2+ is a poor sample size. I think you've been told this before on SSP. Stage 2 is where the big savings come in, even if there are ultimately none in Stage 1.

In fact, since the trains have not been able to meet passenger demand since January, we are spending more on stop gap buses just to somewhat maintain what the Transitway used to deliver.
Nevermind the fact that at the end of the day this is all coming out of withheld payments...
"Spending more", yes, technically. But if you want to play that kind of word game, we are also "saving" $4.5 million a month thanks to RTM's poor performance which is far more than the "extra spending" we are doing.

And that all means that resources are being removed from the neighbourhood bus network.
Which is very different from what the Baseline BRT is.
 
6 months into Stage 1 of 2+ is a poor sample size. I think you've been told this before on SSP. Stage 2 is where the big savings come in, even if there are ultimately none in Stage 1.


Nevermind the fact that at the end of the day this is all coming out of withheld payments...
"Spending more", yes, technically. But if you want to play that kind of word game, we are also "saving" $4.5 million a month thanks to RTM's poor performance which is far more than the "extra spending" we are doing.


Which is very different from what the Baseline BRT is.
I am not convinced that Stage 2 is the big difference maker that you claim. After all, the most buses ran through the central section of the Transitway, which is Stage 1. As we move further out, we are covering fewer and fewer passengers. We still have to cover the costs of running and maintaining all that additional infrastructure and trains at similar levels as Phase 1. The worst offender will be the airport spur that we already know will run at an enormous loss, much more than the bus service that it will replace.

The Baseline BRT may not be as directly affected by the parallel bus service running through downtown, but the additional costs of restoring some service cuts permanently is affecting our ability to prioritize the Baseline BRT. Clearly costs are running at higher levels than desired in spite of moneys being withheld. And then there is the revenue losses as a result of postponed fare increases.
 
I am not convinced that Stage 2 is the big difference maker that you claim. After all, the most buses ran through the central section of the Transitway, which is Stage 1. As we move further out, we are covering fewer and fewer passengers. We still have to cover the costs of running and maintaining all that additional infrastructure and trains at similar levels as Phase 1. The worst offender will be the airport spur that we already know will run at an enormous loss, much more than the bus service that it will replace.
Most buses ran through it, but it is also the smallest portion of the distance covered by those buses. Each station along the extensions may serve fewer and fewer passengers as you go out from the core, but we will still be funneling the same number of passengers onto those trains which is where those savings come from.

The airport spur is the exception, and the southern extension is a long term investment. But the east/west extensions are where some of the immediate returns will come from.

But in any case, even if there aren't major savings from the LRT, I'm not sure what your argument is. Cost savings wasn't the sole reason it was built, and it only furthers the argument to increase transit funding.

The Baseline BRT may not be as directly affected by the parallel bus service running through downtown, but the additional costs of restoring some service cuts permanently is affecting our ability to prioritize the Baseline BRT. Clearly costs are running at higher levels than desired in spite of moneys being withheld. And then there is the revenue losses as a result of postponed fare increases.

Is that because Stage 1 is "costing more", or is it because Stage 2 came in at a billion dollars more than expected? Sure, it's affected the Baseline BRT, but you've continuously painted a very skewed picture of why the Confederation Line has had the "impact" that it's had.

The loss of revenue from the postponed fare increase is also coming out of the withheld money, and as far as revenue is concerned ridership is up from last year.
 
By "frequent" on the Ottawa LRT, they mean every 5 or less minutes during rush hour. See link.

5± minutes is supposed to be the non-rush hour headway for Finch West and Eglinton Crosstown LRT's in Toronto. Unfortunately, seems people thought that Toronto's headways were supposed to been "copied over" for Ottawa, but it didn't go that way.

Unfortunately, it is worse for most U.S. "rapid transit" services.
 
By "frequent" on the Ottawa LRT, they mean every 5 or less minutes during rush hour. See link.

5± minutes is supposed to be the non-rush hour headway for Finch West and Eglinton Crosstown LRT's in Toronto. Unfortunately, seems people thought that Toronto's headways were supposed to been "copied over" for Ottawa, but it didn't go that way.

Unfortunately, it is worse for most U.S. "rapid transit" services.
It's actually 5 minutes outside of rush hour here in Ottawa. It's supposed to be a little under 4 in rush hour, but you only get that when you have all the trains. They were actually fairly consistently hitting this before the great train shortage in January. Now we're lucky when it's 5.

OC Transpo though never claims anything more than 5 or better though, and as we've found out it's because they can't deliver 13 trains consistently, let alone 15.

The actual scheduled frequency (not the marketing babble) is here https://www.octranspo.com/en/plan-your-trip/schedules-maps/?sched-lang=en&date=20200309&rte=1
 
Last edited:
It's actually 5 minutes outside of rush hour here in Ottawa. It's supposed to be a little under 4 in rush hour, but you only get that when you have all the trains. They were actually fairly consistently hitting this before the great train shortage in January. Now we're lucky when it's 5.

OC Transpo though never claims anything more than 5 or better though, and as we've found out it's because they can't deliver 13 trains consistently, let alone 15.
Unfortunately, 13 trains is the bare minimum to service the required ridership demand. Anything less than that requires supplemental bus service as has been the case on every day since January. At 13 trains, frequency is 4 minutes. The original plan for 15 trains would reduce crowding and bring frequency down to almost 3 minutes during peak periods.

At the moment, it appears impossible to operate 15 trains. Perhaps this will change when some Phase 2 trains become available, but one has to wonder whether sufficient numbers of trains have been ordered even for Phase 2.
 
Well , there definitely isn't if they need a 50% spare ratio like they seem to need to right now. However I expect next year to be better than this one. It seems like they need actual engineering solutions, which of course takes a while to implement. If they had quick fixes they would have done them by now. I would also expect them to increase their wheel lathing capacity. I imagine those kinds of machines aren't exactly something you can get on Amazon and take a while to receive.
 
I am not convinced that Stage 2 is the big difference maker that you claim. After all, the most buses ran through the central section of the Transitway, which is Stage 1. As we move further out, we are covering fewer and fewer passengers. We still have to cover the costs of running and maintaining all that additional infrastructure and trains at similar levels as Phase 1. The worst offender will be the airport spur that we already know will run at an enormous loss, much more than the bus service that it will replace.

The Baseline BRT may not be as directly affected by the parallel bus service running through downtown, but the additional costs of restoring some service cuts permanently is affecting our ability to prioritize the Baseline BRT. Clearly costs are running at higher levels than desired in spite of moneys being withheld. And then there is the revenue losses as a result of postponed fare increases.

It will make a difference. With Stage 1 there are very few local routes that connect to the Confederation Line, meaning that there is a Bus -> BRT transfer, and then a BRT -> LRT transfer.

With Stage 2, the various terminus points (and a fair number of the intermediate stations too) will be far enough out that they will be able to be served directly by those local routes. Most trips will then become a Bus -> LRT transfer.

This will also reduce the amount of deadheading required during peak periods. Currently, most of those buses running full into Tunney's are running back out to the suburbs without carrying any revenue passengers. With a shorter route required in order to dump people at the nearest LRT station, those deadheads will either be significantly reduced or eliminated completely (revenue service on the return trip).
 
I don't think we'll see the same level of delay with the trains as we saw with the Confederation Line Phase 1. These trains are pretty standard 'off-the-shelf' units, and it's not like the Swiss don't have experience dealing with extreme weather ranges.

If this project is going to be delayed at all, I would think it would be with the civil works.

The first of 5 Canadian Light Rail Vehicles (CLRV) streetcars were built in Switzerland.
 

Back
Top