micheal_can
Senior Member
... Empty.....
I rode the Northlander in the early 2000s and it was rough between North Bay and Toronto. South of Washago it is a mainline, so likely better than north.
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Ontario Northland/Northern Ontario Transportation
- Thread starter CDL.TO
- Start date
I rode the Northlander in the early 2000s and it was rough between North Bay and Toronto. South of Washago it is a mainline, so likely better than north.
christine
New Member
There definitely was a change in track quality once you get off the Bala Sub. I even remember the track condition on the mainline north of North Bay was better than the northern section of the Newmarket Sub.
As for bilevels, the seats were also uncomfortable (although those could be changed) and I know the doors were not used in Moosonee - although I'm unsure if that was due to a logistical reason or environmental. Either way I'd bet money we won't see billevels used for a Toronto-Cochrane train even if such a service returns. There's also the possibility of there being surplus coaches from ACR now that the line is up for sale but I recall most of their rolling stock is pretty old.
lenaitch
Senior Member
Probably not. The differences between various truck/suspension systems is something that I'm not familiar with. There is a lot of swaying north of Cochrane because of the muskeg and I imagine that would be quite noticeable on the upper level. If nothing else, if they decided to use bi-levels, I'm not sure that commuter seating is conducive to longer haul comfort ,plus the need for some amount of carry-on luggage storage. They have refurb'd a number of single level fmr-GO units for the PBX but I don't know how many remain in the fleet.
Rainforest
Senior Member
Is there any benefit in considering DMUs for the Northlander?
One one hand, seems like a waste to use a high-power freight loco to pull a train having just 3 or 4 cars; DMUs would be a better fit in terms of their power. On the other hand, it may be costly to service the DMUs if they are used for 1 or 2 Northlander trains and not for anything else.
One one hand, seems like a waste to use a high-power freight loco to pull a train having just 3 or 4 cars; DMUs would be a better fit in terms of their power. On the other hand, it may be costly to service the DMUs if they are used for 1 or 2 Northlander trains and not for anything else.
Urban Sky
Senior Member
The challenge is finding DMUs which are FRA-compliant...
Rainforest
Senior Member
Well, UPX runs with DMUs. Not sure if they are FRA / Transport Canada compliant, or maybe all freights are banned from the Weston corridor and therefore the collision strength requirements are relaxed ..
Urban Sky
Senior Member
They seem to be “FRA Tier 1 compliant”, but I thought they were no longer in production...
micheal_can
Senior Member
Think of the cost. Right now, the old coaches are sitting in the Cochrane yard. They could easily be brought back into service for much lower cost than a new DMU. So, for a government who is notorious for penny pinching, DMUs wouldn't be in the plan. Could DMUs be brought in once the service is running and is busy? Maybe.
crs1026
Senior Member
^UPE carbody shells were built in Japan and shipped to Illinois for finishing. Neither facility has a line for this product at the moment. A ONR-sized order woukd be hugely expensive given the fleet size. The only viable option would be to tag on to the end if an off the shelf model that is currently in production. The obvious choice would be the product that VIA is buying.... spare parts, maintenance processes, and maybe even fleet interoperability.
While it is less expensive to recycle old second hand stock onto ONR in the short term, the last thing we need is for the costs to start mounting in 10-15 years as that old equipment gets even older. If this service ever gains enough political momentum, spend while the iron is hot and get the lowest possible long term cist so it remains sustainable.
- Paul
While it is less expensive to recycle old second hand stock onto ONR in the short term, the last thing we need is for the costs to start mounting in 10-15 years as that old equipment gets even older. If this service ever gains enough political momentum, spend while the iron is hot and get the lowest possible long term cist so it remains sustainable.
- Paul
lenaitch
Senior Member
Should it come to pass, I don't see ONTC going for DMUs, simply because they are one trick ponies and would entail different training, parts stream, etc. for a small number of units. Whether it would be worth their while picking up some locomotives with HEP generators, I don't know - they seem to have decent fleet of freight locos and recently acquired a couple of newer (converted) APU units. As for rolling stock, I don't know what they have in the yard and what shape it is in, or what the market has for used pax cars.
Bordercollie
Senior Member
I know that the LRC cars have frame issues, but are the rebuilt ones in really bar condition that they need to be retired? Could they be used on the Northlander?
The best thing to do would be to add cars to the VIA order with Siemens. But that would take three years at least. Could they make due with the equipment they have until then?
lenaitch
Senior Member
I don't know on either question.
They obviously had sufficient fleet to operate both the Northlander and Polar Bear in 2012. Some have be refurbished, quite nicely by the looks of pictures, for the Polar Bear but I have no idea what shape the rest of them are in. It might be a bit of a stretch to expect the government to pony up for new.
Urban Sky
Senior Member
Yes, that’s why the full renewal of the entire Corridor fleet is so urgent...
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micheal_can
Senior Member
The old cars that were used are in Cochrane. They also have a number of really old, pre TEE passenger cars, including some from the early years of steam. I am not suggesting using those, but merely pointing out that they do not have a shortage of cars. They could run 2 a day and still be fine for passenger cars.
The GO bilevel challenge makes me wonder if they could adapt the trucks for a rougher line. Obviously, the existing seats would be removed and replaced with ones that are more suited for long distance travel. They could even turn the bottom into a snack car.
smallspy
Senior Member
25 of the cars recieved an extrememly thorough rebuild - thorough enough that it bankrupted the company doing it. They will hang around for additional service once the Siemens fleet arrives, but the bulk of the LRC fleet is destined for the scrapper.
With the exception of perhaps one or two pieces, ONR still has all of the fleet that they operated upon the ending of the Northlander. So yes, they have enough equipment.
Dan