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Officer Down (Sgt. Ryan Russell)

TOareaFan said:
Perhaps, but the presence of any murder charges and, by your own words, the indication of a "crime" indicate that this is not an "accident"....that is the point I was making. Surely we can agree that this is different than an automobile accident (as stated in the post I was responding to.
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I don't think anyone was arguing it was an just accident, and since the driver was in possession of stolen property at the time it wouldn't matter if it were. What I think most people objected to was the over the top media and police funeral spectacle which followed. A spectacle that began to look more and more like a well engineered p.r. campaign than an opportunity to pay respects.
 
Glad to see this finally going to trial http://www.thestar.com/news/crime/2...ooked_drunk_or_drugged_witness_testifies.html

The entire chain of events could have been avoided if that damn driver had just turned off and locked the snow plow. And no, I'm not arguing that he's legally liable, any more than if I leave my door unlocked and something robs a bank with my kitchen knife. Yet, I can't help blaming the driver somewhat for leaving a piece of heavy equipment running while unattended. Would they do that with a bulldozer, leave it running in public while they ran in for a coffee?

Not sure about Ontario, but in Manitoba there are strict requirements on locking your vehicle....

Requirements on leaving vehicle
221(1) Subject to subsection (4), no driver shall, without reasonable justification, permit a motor vehicle to stand unattended on a highway or park it on a highway without first having
(a) stopped the engine;
(b) locked the ignition; and
(c) removed the key.

...
Offences on parking lots
236(1) Notwithstanding section 74, any person who operates a motor vehicle in any place designed and intended, and primarily used, for the parking of vehicles, including the necessary passageways thereon, has the same rights and duties, and is subject to the same penalties provided for a violation of any provision of this Act, as a person operating a motor vehicle upon a highway.
 
He stole a pick up truck with a snow plow on the front, hardly in the same category as bulldozers and other heavy equipment. The truck owner was standing near the truck shovelling, when it was stolen. You blame the "damn driver" goes both ways, you could also blame the damn cop for standing in front of an erratically driver vehicle. The officer had a gun he should have used it.
 
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gabe said:
He stole a pick up truck with a snow plow on the front, hardly in the same category as bulldozers and other heavy equipment. The truck owner was standing near the truck shovelling, when it was stolen. You blame the "damn driver" goes both ways, you could also blame the damn cop for standing in front of an erratically driver vehicle. The officer had a gun he should have used it.
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I wasn't there, so I can't say if the officer had the opportunity to use his gun and didn't. You may very well be correct.
 
Admiral Beez said:
Glad to see this finally going to trial http://www.thestar.com/news/crime/2...ooked_drunk_or_drugged_witness_testifies.html

The entire chain of events could have been avoided if that damn driver had just turned off and locked the snow plow.
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The tragedy could have also been avoided if Toronto Police had done their job that morning!

Toronto's do nothing Police allowed this mad-man to go on a slow-motion demolition derby on downtown streets for over 2 hours taking NO ACTION to stop him! He was still on the run when Sgt Russell was pronounced dead at St. Mikes!

What amazes me is how there has been zero criticism of the police force over the horrible mishandling of this incident that left one of their officers dead.

The truck was stolen in the early morning hours - 5:15 AM - when the streets would have been all but deserted. The accused never got much above 30 MPH. The conditions were PERFECT for Toronto Police to stop the truck using a combination of PIT maneuvers and spike-strips but they did NOTHING!

Proof of how badly this was handled by Toronto Police is the fact that when Sgt Russell confronted the accused, the accused was standing outside of the truck! Had Toronto Police been doing their job he should have been surrounding by about a dozen cops with guns drawn - it should have been impossible for him to get back inside the truck - instead Sgt Russell was left all alone to confront the mad-man. Of course Sgt. Russell made a fatal mistake by getting out of his cruiser - he should have used the cruiser to block the truck until back up arrived.

Why has the media completely ignored the massive failure of Toronto Police on that day? Why wasn't Bill Blair made to answer for the death of his officer?

There will always be stupid people who leave their keys in their car running. We will always have no shortage of desperate mentally ill people on our streets. We can't do much about them but we can and must demand better of our police!

This is how a PROFESSIONAL police force brings a car chase to a safe and successful conclusion:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SAz41EyRzKA
 
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Peepers said:
The tragedy could have also been avoided if Toronto Police had done their job that morning!

Toronto's do nothing Police allowed this mad-man to go on a slow-motion demolition derby on downtown streets for over 2 hours taking NO ACTION to stop him! He was still on the run when Sgt Russell was pronounced dead at St. Mikes!

What amazes me is how there has been zero criticism of the police force over the horrible mishandling of this incident that left one of their officers dead.

The truck was stolen in the early morning hours - 5:15 AM - when the streets would have been all but deserted. The accused never got much above 30 MPH. The conditions were PERFECT for Toronto Police to stop the truck using a combination of PIT maneuvers and spike-strips but they did NOTHING!

Proof of how badly this was handled by Toronto Police is the fact that when Sgt Russell confronted the accused, the accused was standing outside of the truck! Had Toronto Police been doing their job he should have been surrounding by about a dozen cops with guns drawn - it should have been impossible for him to get back inside the truck - instead Sgt Russell was left all alone to confront the mad-man. Of course Sgt. Russell made a fatal mistake by getting out of his cruiser - he should have used the cruiser to block the truck until back up arrived.

Why has the media completely ignored the massive failure of Toronto Police on that day? Why wasn't Bill Blair made to answer for the death of his officer?

There will always be stupid people who leave their keys in their car running. We will always have no shortage of desperate mentally ill people on our streets. We can't do much about them but we can and must demand better of our police!

This is how a PROFESSIONAL police force brings a car chase to a safe and successful conclusion:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SAz41EyRzKA
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This is the truck (centre, with plow on the front end) that the guy was driving - slightly larger than the toyota trecel in the video you posted.

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Note the garbage truck at the right of the frame. The driver used his garbage truck to box in the snow plow. The ETF truck behind boxed in the other end. The ETF officers, presumably armed with the submachine guns and assault rifles that they nearly always carry, then shot the snow plow driver as he still tried to pull away.

I would suggest that it may be a little harder for one cop car to PIT a snow plow like this, driven by a guy who needed to be shot multiple times after he was boxed in by a garage truck and ETF trucks than it is in the video that you posted.

But then again, I'm no expert.
 

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^I agree that it is easier to use PIT maneuvers on a small car compared to a truck but it should be noted that what caused the snow plow to go out of control and come to a final stop that we see in this picture is that it collided with a Honda Civic. The Police Crown Vic's and GMC Suburban's should have had sufficient mass to successfully carry out a PIT maneuver - had one been attempted. When we look at the above picture it is important to realize that the snow plow did not end up where it did as a result of any action taken by Police. There was no attempt made by Police to stop this vehicle.
 
Even if the PIT maneuver was considered out of the question, spike strips sound like they would have worked perfectly.

Quick question: If you kill a cop, is it an automatic 1st degree murder charge? Without knowing all of the facts, it seems that this should be a 2nd degree or even manslaughter. And it is not just this case, in York Region year or two ago a kid drove away from a RIDE checkpoint and in the following chase, an officer died. He was charged with 1st degree.

How can a heat of the moment incident behind the wheel result in a 1st degree charge, but bring a lethal weapon on to a bus and decapitating a fellow passenger result in a 2nd degree charge?
 
^It is, if you kill a cop while (s)he is killed when in the commission of their duty (ie at a traffic stop). Automatic first-degree murder charged is also laid if someone is killed as a result of the commission of another serious, planned crime, such as robbery or kidnapping.
 
ShonTron said:
^It is, if you kill a cop while (s)he is killed when in the commission of their duty (ie at a traffic stop). Automatic first-degree murder charged is also laid if someone is killed as a result of the commission of another serious, planned crime, such as robbery or kidnapping.
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^It's Canada's version of "felony murder", which we always hear about on US cop shows. Except it isn't just other "serious, planned crime", as it applies to sexual assault, crimes committed in connection with membership in a criminal organization, forceable confinement and criminal intimidation/harassment.
 
I predict this guy will get off with the insanity excuse in the Criminal Code...

16. (1) No person is criminally responsible for an act committed or an omission made while suffering from a mental disorder that rendered the person incapable of appreciating the nature and quality of the act or omission or of knowing that it was wrong. [1]

I hate this defence, as I care little if the person knew what they were doing was wrong. I know that's why we have the courts to decide what's wrong and right.
 
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