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Novel Coronavirus COVID-19 (nCoV-2019)

Do you really think the usual methods will solve this?
They have to unless you want to live in something akin to South Sudan where gunning down people and the rule of law doesn't exist. The State can't order what you want. If shooting somebody without lawful authority (hint - resisting arrest or failing to move isn't), give it a try and let us know how it works out. Not all, heck - not even many - of the "usual methods" have been exercised yet.
 
They have to unless you want to live in something akin to South Sudan where gunning down people and the rule of law doesn't exist. The State can't order what you want. If shooting somebody without lawful authority (hint - resisting arrest or failing to move isn't), give it a try and let us know how it works out. Not all, heck - not even many - of the "usual methods" have been exercised yet.

Not to say that should go for a straight up shoot first, ask questions later approach, but you do have to wonder if it is wisest to go by the playbook - if the leaders of this "event" are who they are, they would certainly know that playbook just as well.

AoD
 
Some yes. This like a Trump rally. Trump increased Republican votes among black and Latino voters. Proves that stupidity comes in all sizes, genders, colors, religions and levels of education.
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I'm only basing this on your claim of "not all", which means not everyone. But doesn't mean a minority or some of or a small percentage. It only means not 100%...and to which, that "everyone" to my understanding that no one is making a claim of, including the media. But as to how many...?

For sake of ease then, lets put it that a large number quite likely are along with their sympathizers, supporters and apologists. As in the end, they might as all be...regardless of their ethnicity, beliefs and whatnot, and for whatever reasons. (Also see: Trump supporters.) At least in this particular avenue of madness. /sigh
 
Not to say that should go for a straight up shoot first, ask questions later approach, but you do have to wonder if it is wisest to go by the playbook - if the leaders of this "event" are who they are, they would certainly know that playbook just as well.

AoD
At the most fundamental level, the play book is all we've got to hang our hat on as a democracy. If not the law, what stops a group of politicians from ordering heads to be cracked on something else they don't take a shine to down the road?

Have no doubt the other side knows the play book. Most of it is public and codified. For the other and more granular bits, there is apparently a group (term undefined) called Police On Guard who are ex-police/military who are sympathetic to the cause.

I'm as against this silliness as much as anybody else. I don't think the organizers, exercising whatever level of control over this disparate group, are worth talking to if, for no other reason that they hold for the dissolution of parliament and demand of the feds that which is under provincial control. If the police move in to break it up (with or without the military in aid of the civil power), so be it, but there are lot of other tools. For the life of my I can't understand why the city or the feds (for their properties) haven't applied for an injunction. It's almost like the Chief and Mayor don't talk.

Quite frankly, other than warm bodies, I really don't see a lot of advantage of involving the military. Most - certainly to ones that would get deployed - are not trained in law enforcement or crowd control, there wouldn't be enough compatible comms to go around; all sorts of reasons.

As for Biden's most generous offer (?) of the DHS, he or a state governor is quite free to clear any international bridge - to the centre of the river. One wonders why they haven't done that yet.
 
I noticed how diverse the protest is, it's not all white supremacists like the media wants you to believe.



FLQSORdWUAADSAQ

Reminds me of the few “Blacks for Trump” that show up at every rally, right behind him.
 
Government and media have tried to paint the protests as just a movement of anti-vaxers pushing back against vaccine mandates, but it’s much bigger and deeper than that. The protests are really about pandemic privilege and the differences between the ways “protective” policies impact different classes differently. The political class and the corporate executive class that devised the directives were the classes most insulated from their impacts. They could work from spacious homes, get away to cottages and other family retreats, and import into their households many of the amenities that the public had to sacrifice: gyms, pools, and during the strictest lockdowns, even natural spaces. It’s interesting that many of the pro-mandate/restriction posters on here and other sites tend to fall into or closer to this privileged group.

The truckers have been the essential workers who couldn’t remove themselves from the risks of public work, nor did they demand that insulation. The powers that be quickly forgot the truckers’ sacrifices when the opportunity to further insulate themselves from risk arose by making sure that everyone got vaccinated (even after we saw that vaccines reduce rather than eliminate risk). A small percentage of truckers asked that their healthcare discretion be respected if they chose not to be vaccinated, but that discretion wasn’t respected by government.

Of course many people from all walks of life wanted the same discretion, but once again it was the truckers who put themselves at risk by taking on everyone’s cause, this time the right to medical discretion, not just being able to have goods delivered.

The reason the government is having a hard time getting the police onside is because the police are essential workers too. They can relate to the cause of the truckers, farmers, and other essential workers. They’re from the same economic class and bear similar burdens.

Taking away rights is no small matter. We the vaccinated lost freedoms in the name of fighting a “health crisis”, but the unvaccinated lost more, including the respect of government and the same media who lionized many of these same people when we were most at risk and needed food on our table.

Of course we want the blockades to end, but for the sake of our very rights as citizens, our government owes the protesters serious consideration and attention.

I know in my heart that vaccine passports are unethical. They have pushed some people to the brink of what a person can handle, including unemployment. Governments still can’t explain how many requirements should be added to the passports and how much the passports have encouraged vaccination. More worrisome, it isn’t clear that vaccines are enormously effective with our current variants, though I’ll grant that they probably have helped prevent deaths and hospitalizations. It’s certainly not clear that making people get vaccinated subject to the loss of citizens’ and basic human rights is justified. Given where we are with the milder variant Omicron, falling hospitalizations, and two years of pandemic mandates and restrictions, there is simply no persuasive argument to maintain vaccine mandates.

Mr. Trudeau, it’s time to back off of your untenable position, respect the Charter of Rights and Freedoms, and let the truckers who served us so heroically throughout the pandemic return to their jobs without mandates.

Many of the unvaccinated are from vulnerable socioeconomic groups, are people of colour, or have mental health challenges. Many have legitimate concerns about the safety of vaccines that haven’t been around long. Call them paranoid or conspiracy theorists, but there are plenty of historic events that illustrate the dangers of government overreach, such as the sterilization of developmentally delayed people.

Removing the blockades through force will not end the protests and could lead to bigger problems. We need a political solution. Given the trend of western governments lifting mandates and restrictions, there’s really only one responsible solution: End vaccine mandates.
 
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...again this is not about rights, this fight is about entitlement by a few who don't really represent the industry as a whole. And no, Mr. Trudeau should not engage with them.

And if the willfully unvaccinated feel they've been so done in, then they should get themselves vaccinated. It would be the responsible and reasonable thing to do here.
 
FFS, I thought you'd given up on this line of BS.

Government and media have tried to paint the protests as just a movement of anti-vaxers pushing back against vaccine mandates, but it’s much bigger and deeper than that. The protests are really about pandemic privilege and the differences between the ways “protective” policies impact different classes differently. The political class and the corporate executive class that devised the directives were the classes most insulated from their impacts.

The medical and scientific community devised these directives, because, y'know, they actually know what they're talking about. If anything, the last two years has shown how much politicians and businesses have pushed against what expert communities have recommended.
They could work from spacious homes, get away to cottages and other family retreats, and import into their households many of the amenities that the public had to sacrifice: gyms, pools, and during the strictest lockdowns, even natural spaces. It’s interesting that many of the pro-mandate/restriction posters on here and other sites tend to fall into or closer to this privileged group.
Oh, stop with this. The government asked as many people to work from home as possible to protect *everyone*. Stop acting like this was some plot by the average office worker to make human sacrifices of the "working class" to the volcano of the capitalist grind, as though most of those asked to work from home don't qualify as working class too.

Psst. Truckers make more on average than graphic designers or office clerks, who can work from home for the most part. Truckers are about on par with an office manager for salaries in Ontario, by the way.
The truckers have been the essential workers who couldn’t remove themselves from the risks of public work, nor did they demand that insulation. The powers that be quickly forgot the truckers’ sacrifices when the opportunity to further insulate themselves from risk arose by making sure that everyone got vaccinated (even after we saw that vaccines reduce rather than eliminate risk). A small percentage of truckers asked that their healthcare discretion be respected if they chose not to be vaccinated, but that discretion wasn’t respected by government.

Uh, no. Trucking is a job that involves little actual personal contact. Generally, aside from rest stops, the only people the average trucker encounters are on the shipping/receiving ends, and even then it's usually a quick sign off. Remember, I actually *have* truckers as friends and relatives.

The imaginary people you're lauding haven't been asked to sacrificed nearly as much as say, a grocery store clerk, line cook, childcare worker, distribution centre employee or bus driver.

In fact, the highest risk groups are the medical community; you know, the ones who keep recommending mandates and other health measures that those in lower-risk groups keep wanting to ignore.

No mandate stopped the unvaccinated from being a trucker. It's stopped them from being a Cross-border trucker. There are *plenty* of trucking jobs that don't require a border cross. And then, it's up to their employer as to whether they require vaccination or not. It's an argument that falls apart with the smallest of scrutiny.
Many of the unvaccinated are from vulnerable socioeconomic groups, are people of colour, or have mental health challenges. Many have legitimate concerns about the safety of vaccines that haven’t been around long. Call them paranoid or conspiracy theorists, but there are plenty of historic events that illustrate the dangers of government overreach, such as the sterilization of developmentally delayed people.

And an overwhelming number of times government measures have been enacted to *protect and preserve life*.

The big push behind most of the North American anti-vax believe vaccinations are a plot of depopulation, run by a Satanic cabal of politicians bought off by the pharmaceutical industry (you'll note even a couple of the Convoy organizers tout the satanic aspect). How is this any different from any other cult? The privilege of social media amplification have given this cult a greater voice than they'd have had in the past.
 
One of the fundamental aspects of workers' rights is the health and safety of the environment they work in. Vaccine mandates augment that in this pandemic, not take away from it.
 
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I wouldn't want to minimize the impact of the pandemic on the working class - but truckers really aren't the ones most affected by this - restaurants/hospitality sector workers are. And this group is made predominantly out of women service workers at that.

As to "vaccine mandates" - they are de-rigeur in most large corporate/institutional settings - and you will actually be let go if you don't get your shot.

AoD
 
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Looking forward to listening what Ford will say at 10:30 this morning (hopefully it will be more substantial than his usual "please, please, folks; my heart bleeds" nonsense). Looking like a saviour while making Trudeau look even more useless than he already is would be perfect for his re-election prospects. I am not pleased with this but something has to be done, and at this point I don't care who is doing it.
 
Looking forward to listening what Ford will say at 10:30 this morning (hopefully it will be more substantial than his usual "please, please, folks; my heart bleeds" nonsense). Looking like a saviour while making Trudeau look even more useless than he already is would be perfect for his re-election prospects. I am not pleased with this but something has to be done, and at this point I don't care who is doing it.

Not to excuse Trudeau too much, but he has to worry about national unity as PM (though honestly, you aren't going to change their minds either way) and Ford really doesn't as a premier.

AoD
 
I wouldn't want to minimize the impact of the pandemic on the working class - but truckers really aren't the ones most affected by this - restaurants/hospitality sector workers are. And this group is made predominantly out of women service workers at that.

Bingo. It's hard to claim someone on their feet all day doesn't represent "working class".

As to "vaccine mandates" - they are de-rigeur in most large corporate/institutional settings - and you will actually be let go if you don't get your shot.
Many of the truckers in the Ottupation have been identified as private truck owners/small businesses, so the only wall they'll hit is the border and potentially (but unlikely) any "ethical sourcing" requirements of those hiring them. A truck sitting idle is a truck losing money. If keeping the specific job of being a trucker is more important to them than mandates, they're shooting themselves in the foot. Insurance companies are pulling coverage, traffic infractions are being issued and lists are being created that will limit further employment.

While there are firms like Evans Trucking are more than inviting to the unvaccinated, are they willing to hire a trucker who's also uninsurable and has a dirty driving record?
 
The truckers in the convoy don't seem to need their trucks for making a living, so seize them. Later sell the trucks to recoup the cost of enforcement.

Ontario prepares fines, possible seizure of trucks to end Ambassador Bridge blockade, sources say

From link.

The Ontario government is preparing a series of measures in an effort to break the logjam at the Ambassador Bridge and reopen the most important trade link between Canada and the U.S., according to two sources with direct knowledge of the plans.

Premier Doug Ford intends to get tough with the protesters, one source said. In addition to hefty fines and the possible confiscation of vehicles, the sources said the province is also looking at its options for suspending commercial licences.

The measures will be implemented under existing law but also by changing regulations and laws to give prosecutors the legal authority to act against the protesters, they said.
The Prime Minister, who has been in talks with Mr. Ford this week, was briefed on Ontario’s plans and is ready to provide more RCMP officers and additional measures if requested, the sources said. The Globe and Mail is not identifying the sources because they were not permitted to disclose the internal deliberations.

The proposals, which are still being refined, would mark the first significant move by a government to try and bring the border blockades to an end.

One source said the top priority for the Premier and Prime Minister is opening the Ambassador Bridge, which has been shuttered since Monday. Once that is dealt with, their attention will go back to clearing the already two-week-old blockade in Ottawa.

In another attempt to deter the Ottawa protests, the province on Thursday said it won a court order cutting off more than $11-million fundraised through two separate pages on the website GiveSendGo.

Mr. Ford’s spokesperson, Ivana Yelich, said the order prevents the use of “any and all monetary donations” through the crowdfunding site.

The Premier is expected to make the announcement on blockade measures as early as Friday, according to the sources.

Protesters, sympathetic to the anti-government, anti-mandate blockades in Ottawa, have now barricaded three border crossings in Ontario, Alberta and Manitoba. The protests have disrupted supply chains, forced factories to slash production, and are putting Canada’s reputation as a trading country at risk.
...
 
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A fourth protest is planned for the Peace Bridge on Saturday, that route connects Fort Erie, Ont., to Buffalo. Pennie Fay, one of the organizers of that protest, said her group has no plans to blockade the bridge but she doesn’t know if others will.

Federal ministers and officials have also been in “close contact” with their U.S. counterparts “to align efforts to resolve this situation,” said a readout from the Prime Minister’s Office. One source said the talks were with the White House and Homeland Security, with an aim to discourage blockades on both sides of the border. The Prime Minister called the barricades “unacceptable” and said Thursday that the protests are “hurting communities across the country.”

“We’re going to continue to do what’s necessary to end these barricades,” he said, but he walked away from reporters when asked to detail how that would be accomplished. Mr. Trudeau briefed federal party leaders late Thursday to discuss the border crisis, after a request from Conservative interim leader Candice Bergen.

After the meeting, Ms. Bergen said she continues to call on Mr. Trudeau to “take action to bring this to an end peacefully and quickly.”

NDP Leader Jagmeet Singh said the federal government should follow Ontario’s lead and apply for a federal injunction to ensure the freeze on funds applies across Canada.

Mr. Singh accused the Prime Minister of making excuses rather than finding solutions. “Canadians have been missing national leadership,” he said.

The newest border blockade in Emerson, Man., began overnight on Wednesday. On Thursday, RCMP said a large number of vehicles and farm equipment were stopping traffic in both directions.

Collectively, the three barricaded border crossings usually move more than $531-million in goods daily, according to data from the Canadian Manufacturers & Exporters lobby group. By far, the most significant crossing is the Ambassador Bridge in Windsor, Ont., which carries $417-million in goods daily.

“It’s bad for Canada,” said the association’s Dennis Darby. Unlike past supply disruptions that were caused by events out of Canada’s control, these blockades are an “own goal.”

The bridge, connecting Windsor to Detroit, is critical to the agrifood and auto sectors and is a key supply route for fresh produce sold in the Windsor-to-Quebec corridor. On Thursday, the federal government said RCMP officers will be sent to back up Windsor police, and one source said more from the OPP will also go.

On Thursday, Windsor Mayor Drew Dilkens said the city is seeking an injunction to end the Ambassador Bridge blockade.

“This is a national crisis,” Mr. Dilkens said at a Thursday press conference. If need be, he said individuals “will be removed to allow for the safe movement of goods.” Mr. Dilkens on Wednesday warned that doing so could lead to violence because some have said they are “willing to die” for their cause.

On Thursday night at the Windsor blockade, children played in a bouncy castle and on trampolines while a DJ blared music. Vendors had set up tables selling “freedom” T-shirts to the crowd of about 400 to 500.

Roughly 80 vehicles had blocked the road to the Ambassador Bridge, most of which were pickup trucks and cars. There were only about 10 freight trucks among them.

Most vehicles were festooned with Canadian flags as well as posters and flags directing expletives at Mr. Trudeau.

At one point, a speaker took a microphone and urged the crowd to return Friday with friends, noting that police were being brought in to the city.

On Thursday, police from other parts of southwestern Ontario were moving into several nearby hotels. All roads to the blockade had been shut down by police, who kept their distance.

Many in attendance Thursday night carried religious placards. One was Brendan Aymar, a Windsor resident.

He said he was not concerned by the havoc the blockade was causing to automakers.

”It has to happen if we’re going to [get rid of vaccine mandates],” he said.

The provincial and federal governments have largely left the management of the protests to local police. But amid the mounting pressure on governments to end the illegal protests, the federal government has begun calling out Ontario for failing to participate in trilateral meetings, which include the relevant cities.

One source said Queen’s Park doesn’t intend to participate in the meetings because Mr. Ford and his ministers and officials have been in regular contact with other levels of government.

Meanwhile, blockades at Alberta and Manitoba’s most important border crossings continued to stymie trade on Thursday.

The crossing at Coutts, Alta., is critical to Canada’s trade in cattle, beef and produce. Canadian Manufacturers & Exporters said it usually sees $44-million a day in two-way trade. That blockade has been in place intermittently since Jan. 29, and since Tuesday, traffic has been blocked in both directions.

More than 75 vehicles and tractors remained at the Coutts protest site Thursday, RCMP Superintendent Roberta McKale said. About 14 kilometres north, near Milk River, more than 163 vehicles and tractors are crowding the highway.

“People have normalized this,” Supt. McKale said. “It is not normal to have an unlawful protest in Canada.”

Officers are issuing tickets directly to protesters and sending others to registered vehicle owners by mail.

“Don’t come here. Have a lawful protest somewhere else,” she said.

In Manitoba, about 40 vehicles are blocking the border in both directions. However, Dave Carlson, the reeve of the Municipality of Emerson-Franklin, said trucks with livestock are being allowed to pass through. The protesters, he said appear to be “digging in for a longer haul.”

Emerson sees about $70-million in daily trade, which represents almost two thirds of Manitoba’s exports, according to Canadian Manufacturers & Exporters.

Manitoba Justice Minister Kelvin Goertzen proposed no provincial solutions to the impasse at the border and pinned the problem on Mr. Trudeau, accusing the Prime Minister of using “unnecessarily divisive” language.

“It is very, very important, even in disagreement, that he understands he’s still the Prime Minister for all Canadians,” he said.

Mr. Goertzen also said the border falls under federal jurisdiction, a similar position taken by Ontario.

The Manitoba’s Legislature has also been beset by protests for a week now.

The protests began in Ottawa with a convoy of trucks and vehicles driving to the capital from across the country more than two weeks ago. The protesters said they were opposed to the vaccine mandate imposed by the federal government on cross-border truckers. However, their cause has snowballed into a broader anti-government protest and includes opposition to all pandemic restrictions.

The Canadian Trucking Alliance has condemned the protests since the start and on Thursday said in a statement that the blockades are “impairing the hard work of truck drivers who continue to keep our essential goods moving.”

“Many of those who are protesting having their lives disrupted by certain policies are, in turn, ironically disrupting the lives of their fellow Canadians,” president Stephen Laskowski said.
 

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