North York Centre Van Attack

[Admiral Beez]

Looking down the line, I wonder what the accused's plea and defence will be. I'd say a mentally unfit plea is unlikely to succeed, not to suggest that's what's happened here, but his lawyer will need to grab at anything. It's interesting that he was in the CAF for a very short time, and was seemingly seen as mentally fit to serve. https://www.ctvnews.ca/canada/van-attack-suspect-was-briefly-in-canadian-military-1.3899468

 

[AlvinofDiaspar]

Looking down the line, I wonder what the accused's plea and defence will be. I'd say a mentally unfit plea is unlikely to succeed, not to suggest that's what's happened here, but his lawyer will need to grab at anything. It's interesting that he was in the CAF for a very short time, and was seemingly seen as mentally fit to serve. https://www.ctvnews.ca/canada/van-attack-suspect-was-briefly-in-canadian-military-1.3899468

I don't think the article said anything about him being mentally unfit to serve - just that he didn't perform well and requested voluntary release. The mental health bit came later.

AoD

 

[Skeezix]

Here is a very informative, and frightening, Twitter thread by Toronto journalist Arshy Mann, explaining what the "incel" movement is:

https://threadreaderapp.com/thread/988818797086871558.html

 

[44 North]

The Star saying he had Aspergers (autism spectrum) and received a lot of help. Wasn't expecting that. People even surprised he was allowed to drive. As @Admiral Beez says this could be an interesting defence. Guy's a freak though needs to be locked up indefinitely.

 

[lenaitch]

So am I, eleven years now (plus many years on ezboard) but if I created a Wikipedia entry on whatever the topic of the day was, created a thread here at UT on that topic, and then ensured my first post was a link back to my Wikipedia entry.... well, I'd fully expect to be called out for needlessly seeking engagement and yes, self-aggrandizement. Anyway, I hate a threadjacking as much as most, so I'll say no more on that.

Looking down the line, I wonder what the accused's plea and defence will be. I'd say a mentally unfit plea is unlikely to succeed, not to suggest that's what's happened here, but his lawyer will need to grab at anything. It's interesting that he was in the CAF for a very short time, and was seemingly seen as mentally fit to serve. https://www.ctvnews.ca/canada/van-attack-suspect-was-briefly-in-canadian-military-1.3899468

The accused will no doubt be ordered to undergo a psychiatric examination. Whether he meets the criteria for a Not Criminally Responsible ruling remains to be seen. Depending on the evidence, another angle of defence could be to argue for a conviction of second degree vs. first degree murder.

I see some interesting wordplay in the CTV article. One one hand the reporter states that she "has heard from law enforcement “on multiple levels” that Minassian was struggling with his mental health", but later states that "Police have said Minassian was not known to them before this incident and had no previous criminal record." This is not Mayberry where Andy and Barney know everybody's goings-on - he was either in the police database(s) or he wasn't.

 

[Admiral Beez]

I see some interesting wordplay in the CTV article. One one hand the reporter states that she "has heard from law enforcement “on multiple levels” that Minassian was struggling with his mental health", but later states that "Police have said Minassian was not known to them before this incident and had no previous criminal record." This is not Mayberry where Andy and Barney know everybody's goings-on - he was either in the police database(s) or he wasn't.

I suppose it's a question of chronology or the sequence of events. A credible path could be:

1) TPS advise that Minassian not known to police before incident.
2) After incident, police discern/informed that Minassian was struggling with mental health
3) TPS advise that they're aware Minassian was struggling.

#3 can be true without contradicting #1.

 

[AlvinofDiaspar]

I'm curious if the police and emergency services plan for a scenario like this in a more heavily urbanized area like downtown. Would the first responders have acted differently or made it to the scene quicker if, heaven forbid, it had happened at King and Bay?

This answered the question:

Since January, the Toronto police in-service training — offered annually to officers — has begun running a scenario eerily similar to the real-life horror that played out along Yonge, involving officers responding to a vehicle attack on pedestrians. Crisis resolution training has also focused increasingly on situations involving people trying to provoke officers into shooting them.

https://www.thestar.com/news/gta/20...k-minassian-due-in-court-tuesday-morning.html

 

[BurlOak]

I suppose it's a question of chronology or the sequence of events. A credible path could be:

1) TPS advise that Minassian not known to police before incident.
2) After incident, police discern/informed that Minassian was struggling with mental health
3) TPS advise that they're aware Minassian was struggling.

#3 can be true without contradicting #1.

US reported that suspect was known to police - I think it was police chief who was quoted.

 

[Admiral Beez]

You’ve turned off private messages so I’ll just post this:
https://research.hollandbloorview.ca/researchcentreslabs/autismresearchcentre/people/johnnyau
He uses Wikipedia and UT as a tool for interacting with others. His writing style is very precise. There’s 0% malice/aggrandizement involved.

Fixed. Thanks. Apologies Johnny.

 

[BurlOak]

I heard about a debate on CFRB on whether the Leaf game should have gone ahead - 5.5 hours after the killings. I tuned in after, so I don't know the result.
It also got me thinking if it would have been cancelled if the incident occurred downtown, and whether North York not really being part of Toronto played a factor.

 

[SunriseChampion]

...and I am not sure why we need to refer to NYPost for local news?

AoD

Speaking of which.....Deutsche Welle's English language service was reporting that "several downtown Toronto streets were closed" because of the incident. Yeah, super informative from (some of) the foreign journos.

 

[SunriseChampion]

I heard about a debate on CFRB on whether the Leaf game should have gone ahead - 5.5 hours after the killings. I tuned in after, so I don't know the result.
It also got me thinking if it would have been cancelled if the incident occurred downtown, and whether North York not really being part of Toronto played a factor.

Why would the match be cancelled/postponed?

Security reasons or "out of respect"?

Also, I'm no genius, but I reckon that North York is a part of Toronto.

 

[SunriseChampion]

Looking down the line, I wonder what the accused's plea and defence will be. I'd say a mentally unfit plea is unlikely to succeed, not to suggest that's what's happened here, but his lawyer will need to grab at anything.

I'm not sure this really means much a propos his defence, but he was represented by duty counsel at his bail court appearance today. This isn't to say that he won't have his own legal counsel in future, but wouldn't that already be the case now if it were a possibility for him?
Duty counsel aren't likely to attempt a mental health fitness defence, I reckon.

 

[AlvinofDiaspar]

It also got me thinking if it would have been cancelled if the incident occurred downtown, and whether North York not really being part of Toronto played a factor.

Given the outpouring of concern across the entire city region, that is a rather odd and untimely expression of us vs. them.

AoD

 

[SunriseChampion]

Here is a very informative, and frightening, Twitter thread by Toronto journalist Arshy Mann, explaining what the "incel" movement is:

https://threadreaderapp.com/thread/988818797086871558.html

Well, thanks for that mindfuck after I went down the rabbit hole that is the internet.

Oh man.......I need a shot of gin and a smoke after some of what I just read. I knew about these folks before but I ignored their internet activity because.....well, I'm not interested in what they have to say. So, I wasn't entirely aware of the fact that some of these people are entirely insane. Like, genocidally insane.
Mass rapes. Mass acid attacks. Flame thrower attacks. etc.....and worse. A lot worse...like forced sexual enslavement of women, for example.

I'm wondering if law enforcement agencies will now take them seriously.

Certain corners of the internet are about to martyrise Minassian because he managed to kill more people than their god Elliot Rodger (the incel chump who went on a shooting rampage in California four years ago). So that's great.

I hope this guy's trial puts incels themselves on trial and that law enforcement agencies start taking them seriously (if they aren't already; I have no idea of whether or not they are). I also hope that mental health issues get the attention they severely require and am sad that it would take something like this happening for that to be achieved (when, for example, many police shootings of mentally ill people haven't).