New Pole Wraps Successfully Reduce Streetscape Clutter

[neubilder]

This image by a Toronto based graphic novelist embodies the qualities that I'm trying to describe, and does a better job of it than my words ever could. It's only a brief vignette showing the cornice of a single building with wires and hydro poles, but is unmistakably Toronto. Many could even locate it. It captures an unmistakable sense of place, but also the time of day and the season.

Take away the wires and hydro poles and this image would not evoke such a strong sense of place.

 

[MisterF]

^That's only unmistakably Toronto because every other city in the industrialized world buried their power lines. If Toronto never paved its streets then dirt roads would be unmistakably Toronto too.

As for your photos of Bloor, there are plenty of reasons that the second image looks less distinctive. The streetcar tracks, cobblestones, extravagant signage, unique streetlights. To suggest that it's because of the overhead wires is disingenuous. BTW, in the first image, no posters!

 

[neubilder]

I've dipped my toe into this or the hydro pole thread before and it blows my mind how intense the anti hydro-pole/poster/graffiti crowd's views are on the subject, and how scornful and intolerant of opposing views. (I see you cleaned up your post, too)

For most streets I would agree, cleaning up the clutter would be an improvement - but in the historic retail districts of streets like Queen East (esp. Riverdale + Leslieville), Queen West, and Dundas West, which have strict zoning to retain the traditional streetscape of lowrise storefronts, I think the retention of these gritty characteristics is a good thing.

 

[Urban Shocker]

Wooden utility poles and overhead wires chronicle how we adapted to new technology a century or more ago, and it's inevitable that new possibilities ( burying wires, and recapturing a sense of what our streetscapes were like before the advent of hydro ) will come into play. I don't find the poles offensive, but I can see that their days may be numbered - just as many other cities have changed from overhead wires to buried wires. The same sort of thing happened with streetcars, which were abandoned by most other cities - leaving Toronto "unique" ( though it's worth noting that other cities are now reintroducing them ).

 

[MisterF]

Wooden utility poles and overhead wires chronicle how we adapted to new technology a century or more ago, and it's inevitable that new possibilities ( burying wires, and recapturing a sense of what our streetscapes were like before the advent of hydro ) will come into play. I don't find the poles offensive, but I can see that their days may be numbered - just as many other cities have changed from overhead wires to buried wires. The same sort of thing happened with streetcars, which were abandoned by most other cities - leaving Toronto "unique" ( though it's worth noting that other cities are now reintroducing them ).

It's not really a good comparison because streetcars aren't simply historical relics. They offer advantages to the alternative and replacing them with buses has major negative impacts on transportation.

I've dipped my toe into this or the hydro pole thread before and it blows my mind how intense the anti hydro-pole/poster/graffiti crowd's views are on the subject, and how scornful and intolerant of opposing views. (I see you cleaned up your post, too)

For most streets I would agree, cleaning up the clutter would be an improvement - but in the historic retail districts of streets like Queen East (esp. Riverdale + Leslieville), Queen West, and Dundas West, which have strict zoning to retain the traditional streetscape of lowrise storefronts, I think the retention of these gritty characteristics is a good thing.

The edit was minor and didn't clean anything up (don't worry I'm not throwing around insults like some other posters). The debate gets intense because people are passionate about making our city look better. They see what other cities do without a second thought and when they see the state of some of our busiest streets they get angry. It also gets heated because people link the hydro poles to character and getting rid of them to sterility, which is, frankly, ridiculous. I'd be curious if you think that this is sterile. Or if this and this lack character.

There's nothing distinctively Toronto about overhead power lines, any more than there would be if we still had wooden sidewalks. It just means we've fallen behind. Look at it this way: the picture you posted saying how distinctively Toronto it is, imagine it without the power lines. You'd actually be able to see the details of the building. Maybe if we didn't have so many power lines cluttering up our retail strips people would appreciate the architecture of the old buildings more. And that's a big part of what makes an area distinctive.

 

[neubilder]

You've picked some beautiful examples of urban streetscapes. I hear what you are saying and to a certain point I agree, and I must also confess there is an element of obscure taste on my part. You make a valid point about the streetcar tracks vs. the wires - unlike the tracks, retaining overhead wires could be construed as unnecessary and nostalgic. However like it or not, Toronto is the rust-belt city that made it; it could also be construed as false to 'put on airs' so to speak, and get all gussied up in an attempt to hide our humble origins. You mention wooden sidewalks - in the urban context this is a distinctly Northern-North American frontier trait. One which (fire codes notwithstanding) people have fought to preserve.
When I first moved to Toronto 6 years ago I was astonished by how decrepit and dated parts of this city were, and how banal so much of the architecture and landscape was compared to my preconceptions and to other places I've lived. But over time, coming and going, it's these areas that have grown on me and have become most ingrained in my memory.

70 years ago cities throughout the rust belt became ashamed of their origins and began demolishing entire historic districts in hopes they could become more contemporary. The sad ending to that story was many of these places never survived because of it. I'm not saying all of Toronto needs to be gilded and turned into a museum, just that remembering where you come from is important, especially in a place as new as Canada.

 

[car4041]

Astral's present community announcement pillars are inadequate: they're small, few in number, and uninviting in their bland design. In fact, the community announcement pillars are belittled by Astral's transit shelter ads and the infamous Info-to-Go pillars.

Several more of the announcement pillars have sprouted along Spadina quite recently (although still not enough to be a real alternative to the poles).

 

[picard102]

The first (historic) photo is full of visual cues, it's unmistakable, the second (contemporary) photo could be anywhere.

Both these photos could be Anytown, USA. Doesn't do much for your point that one is better than the other.

 

[neubilder]

Both these photos could be Anytown, USA. Doesn't do much for your point that one is better than the other.

If the street condition in the first photo still existed today it would rapidly become the hot spot and make Ossington look like Dufferin.

 

[MisterF]

You've picked some beautiful examples of urban streetscapes. I hear what you are saying and to a certain point I agree, and I must also confess there is an element of obscure taste on my part. You make a valid point about the streetcar tracks vs. the wires - unlike the tracks, retaining overhead wires could be construed as unnecessary and nostalgic. However like it or not, Toronto is the rust-belt city that made it; it could also be construed as false to 'put on airs' so to speak, and get all gussied up in an attempt to hide our humble origins. You mention wooden sidewalks - in the urban context this is a distinctly Northern-North American frontier trait. One which (fire codes notwithstanding) people have fought to preserve.
When I first moved to Toronto 6 years ago I was astonished by how decrepit and dated parts of this city were, and how banal so much of the architecture and landscape was compared to my preconceptions and to other places I've lived. But over time, coming and going, it's these areas that have grown on me and have become most ingrained in my memory.

70 years ago cities throughout the rust belt became ashamed of their origins and began demolishing entire historic districts in hopes they could become more contemporary. The sad ending to that story was many of these places never survived because of it. I'm not saying all of Toronto needs to be gilded and turned into a museum, just that remembering where you come from is important, especially in a place as new as Canada.

Toronto isn't a rust belt city. The closest thing this area has to a rust belt is Brantford or Hamilton. Real rust belt cities like Cleveland or Buffalo, or Manchester for that matter, have more extensively buried hydro lines than Toronto does. By the way, pretty much every city has humble origins. That doesn't stop them from improving their streetscapes...especially in their historic areas.

As for your last paragraph, you're not doing your argument any favours by equating improving streetscapes with wholescale demolition of historic districts.

 

[picard102]

If the street condition in the first photo still existed today it would rapidly become the hot spot and make Ossington look like Dufferin.

Or a derelict district.

 

[RC8]

This image by a Toronto based graphic novelist embodies the qualities that I'm trying to describe, and does a better job of it than my words ever could. It's only a brief vignette showing the cornice of a single building with wires and hydro poles, but is unmistakably Toronto. Many could even locate it. It captures an unmistakable sense of place, but also the time of day and the season.

Take away the wires and hydro poles and this image would not evoke such a strong sense of place.

?

Do you think Yorkville feels sterile? Expensive and pretentious yes (and that's down to the retail), but I don't think sterile.

In Toronto a lot of the grit has been replaced by horrible streetscaping (see the Bloor in the annex or Greektown). That doesn't mean it's the only way to rid of grit. If instead of replacing overhead wires with generic lamposts and wider roads we had replaced them with wider sidewalks clad with paving stones and colourful grade separated bike lanes, the result would have been much different.

 

[neubilder]

Do you think Yorkville feels sterile? Expensive and pretentious yes (and that's down to the retail), but I don't think sterile.
.

Again, I'm in favour of retaining the grit (plastered wooden hydro poles, graffiti etc) in a few areas like Queen East/West and Leslieville etc., not everywhere. - got it folks?

Good spotting with the photo.

 

[neubilder]

Or a derelict district.

Ossington was the most derelict strip in town and now it's the hottest. This is because it had good buildings and the right type of grit, Your point?

 

[cassius]

This image by a Toronto based graphic novelist embodies the qualities that I'm trying to describe, and does a better job of it than my words ever could. It's only a brief vignette showing the cornice of a single building with wires and hydro poles, but is unmistakably Toronto. Many could even locate it. It captures an unmistakable sense of place, but also the time of day and the season.

Take away the wires and hydro poles and this image would not evoke such a strong sense of place.

I sit on the side of the debate that many of the messy poles and power cables do detract from the public realm, and the public's interest or awareness of our urban architecture. While I don't like sterile either, it just looks too messy. But I do find it interesting that I was immediately able to place neubuilder's image above.