News   Nov 18, 2019
 76     0 
News   Nov 18, 2019
 958     5 
News   Nov 18, 2019
 505     5 

Mountain Equipment Co-op

Zephyr

Active Member
Member Bio
Joined
Jun 30, 2007
Messages
775
Reaction score
0
Just a lurker on this thread ... but what a whale of a name - coalminecanary. I hope your commentary will live up to that moniker. Welcome aboard!

-​
 

Hydrogen

post-young
Member Bio
Joined
Apr 23, 2007
Messages
5,990
Reaction score
0
On the other hand, MEC in Ottawa is located in an older neighbourhood that is slowly being rejuvenated. The building is made with recycled and reclaimed materials. Nicely done.
 

Tewder

Senior Member
Member Bio
Joined
Apr 30, 2007
Messages
5,401
Reaction score
150
Actually the number of pedestrians downtown is surprisingly high. Stand in Gore park any time of day and there are always crowds.
The crowds that hang out in Gore Park are not exactly the demographic being courted here.

Not to mention Hess village. The proposed federal building location straddles Hess and Downtown... and with plenty of retail development in the works along that stretch, plus hotel development, those couple of blocks on Main are only going to go "up".

Main Street is basically an expressway, and about as cozy for strolling as the QEW. Hess village is dead during the day, and only comes alive at night when all of the local suburbanites come to get drunk at the bars. It the the 'club district' of Hamilton, and little more.


Their Toronto store does not have parking. There is a separately managed lot underneath their store that is the same footprint as the store itself. Their Vancouver store has a lot on the roof that is the same footprint as the building. Their Victoria store has no parking... well there are two street parking spots out front. There is more bike parking than car parking at the Victoria store! This is the way its members expect MEC to be run. They do not expect them to plop a green building in the middle of a big box wasteland next to a highway and surrounded by surface parking.
Hamilton isn't exactly Toronto, Vancouver or Victoria. Hamilton is a city of one-way road arteries that are designed to move vehicles, not welcome pedestrians. I know, I lived downtown Hamilton for a year and it was dismal. There is next to no reason to go downtown, unless you like porno palaces, dollar stores and bingo parlours. The Eaton Centre and the street-killing black hole that is Jackson Square are pretty much retail wastelands, and there is little by way of convenient public transit. The Hamilton I know, and love, is not exactly full of people who enjoy biking around town.


I've said it in other places and I'll say it again: building a green building is only half the "battle". If you put a green building in a location that begs people to drive single occupancy vehicles to get there, you are negating all of your hard work. I challenge anyone here to ride a bike or walk on Brant Street near the QEW -- it's a nightmare. Nothing but high speed maniacal Burlington suburbanites, all flying by the nearby car dealerships, strip malls (and the soon-to-be-walmart) in order to get home asap. This is not pedestrian, transit or cyclist friendly despite the lip service paid out in mec's press release.!
I challenge you to ride a bike down Centennial Parkway (if you want to compare apples to apples).

Your eco-consiousness is lovely, but how do you suppose that all those urbane Hamiltonians are going to get to the MEC? Guess what, they will be *driving* there... after they've cashed their welfare cheques, bought their two-four and had their mullets coiffed at the salon.

Sorry to rant, but the more I think about it, the more this location STINKS!
Ditto.
 
C

coalminecanary

Guest
The crowds that hang out in Gore Park are not exactly the demographic being courted here.
I wasn't talking about the loiterers. I was talking about pedestrians. People walking about between work, transit, parking, home, entertainment, etc. The loiterers were not the target demographic of the Honest Lawyer either, but they seem to be doing fine (packed most evenings, patio packed every sunny day this past season).

And nobody hangs out at Brant/QEW unless you count the car salesmen at Hyundai...

Main Street is basically an expressway, and about as cozy for strolling as the QEW. Hess village is dead during the day, and only comes alive at night when all of the local suburbanites come to get drunk at the bars. It the the 'club district' of Hamilton, and little more.
Main Street is indeed an urban expressway, and I have been a strong advocate for Hamilton changing its one ways for a long time. But Brant and the QEW is even worse. At least Main Street in Hamilton is peppered with high density housing and has a potential to be a true urban street. Brant/QEW is mostly highway right of way land that will never be developed as long as the QEW is there. It is a dead end location -- what you see *now* is what you get *forever*.

Regarding Hess, it is actually quite well populated by high class as well as "urban hip" restaurants that are busy for lunch (especially in summer) and dinner.

Hamilton isn't exactly Toronto, Vancouver or Victoria. Hamilton is a city of one-way road arteries that are designed to move vehicles, not welcome pedestrians. I know, I lived downtown Hamilton for a year and it was dismal. There is next to no reason to go downtown, unless you like porno palaces, dollar stores and bingo parlours. The Eaton Centre and the street-killing black hole that is Jackson Square are pretty much retail wastelands, and there is little by way of convenient public transit. The Hamilton I know, and love, is not exactly full of people who enjoy biking around town.
Burlington isn't exactly Toronto, Vancouver or Victoria. Burlington is a city of stripmall-lined arteries that are designed to move vehicles between single use suburban housing developments, not welcome pedestrians. I know, I lived between downtown Burlington and Burlington mall for three years and it was dismal. There is barely even a downtown to speak of, and what does exist offers very little to anyone wanting to spend more than a few minutes walking by the lake. The two suburban malls have killed any chance of retail development in "the core", and there is little by way of convenient public transit. The Burlington I know is not exactly full of people who enjoy biking around town.

My point being, Burlington's downtown is worse still than Hamilton's. The only thing it offers is some lame sense of "safety" because all ne'er do wells have been made unwelcome. Besides enjoying the sterility, there's nothing to do there. And any area more than 2 blocks from the lake are even WORSE. If MEC was locating near downtown Burlington my criticisms would be lighter, but they've chosen to be within spitting distance of the QEW, so they won't get any marks from me as far as location goes.

I challenge you to ride a bike down Centennial Parkway (if you want to compare apples to apples).
For the record, I *have*. But I know I am in a minority. Regardless of that, I don't understand your point. I never once suggested Centennial Parkway for MEC, and I never would. I am talking about them locating in a suburban wasteland instead of a truly dense urban downtown area only 10 minutes down the highway from their bad, bad choice.

Your eco-consiousness is lovely, but how do you suppose that all those urbane Hamiltonians are going to get to the MEC? Guess what, they will be *driving* there... after they've cashed their welfare cheques, bought their two-four and had their mullets coiffed at the salon.
This paragraph basically makes you look like a closed minded fool who relies on stereotypes to back up your arguments. Maybe you aren't -- I don't know you. But it's a good basis for my assumption. Have you been to Hamilton lately? I live in Hamilton, within walking distance of downtown in fact. I am not a crackhead, I have no mullet, I walk and ride my bike everywhere, I'm not on welfare, and I buy more wine than I do "two fours". I am professionally employed and I am exactly within the MEC demographic. And guess what, 60% of my neighbours match my profile. 39% are very close, but happen to be older than MEC's target (but they are probably also a lot better off than I am). The remaining 1% might possibly represent the beer-swilling crowd you mention.*

I also wonder what the point of your entire response was? You are clearly against Hamilton as a potential MEC location. Are you fighting for the Burlington location? Or do you favour a different place altogether? Or would you prefer they don't move outside of Toronto as all?

It appears that you are arguing for argument's sake. Come back when you have an argument for a reasonable alternative. Try being positive instead of focussing on the negative. Really, what was the point of your response? To bash Hamilton? To bash me? You have suggested NO alternatives at all!


*these are estimates, but not exaggerated
 
C

coalminecanary

Guest
For any Hamilton doubters: here are some pictures of the REAL Hamilton, in case anyone does not believe that we have a true urban downtown. Hamilton is more than crackheads and steel mills (and we are barely that at all).

(all photos were taken by FLAR from the skyscraper page forums)

Since the skyscraper page is up and down like a yo-yo, I've linked to google's cache of all of the photo tours that FLAR has posted. As long as photobucket doesn't go down, these cache links should work.

These are really great, and if you want to comment on them (I'm sure FLAR would appreciate your kind words), try hitting up the "original link", and if the skyscraper forums are up then you might be in luck :)

Another incredible Hamilton neighbourhood: Kirkendall

Google Cache: link to full tour (or if you are feeling lucky, try the original link)

A leisurely stroll through the inner city (urbanity+grit)

Google Cache: link to full tour (or if you are feeling lucky, try the original link)

The largest fabric and textile district in Canada

Google Cache: link to full tour (or if you are feeling lucky, try the original link)

Old school suburbia: A profile of one of Canada's first and finest suburbs

Google Cache: link to full tour (or if you are feeling lucky, try the original link)

Possibly the largest concentration of early 20C mansions in Canada

Google Cache: link to full tour (or if you are feeling lucky, try the original link)

Spring in the Valley: Dundas, ON

Google Cache: link to full tour (or if you are feeling lucky, try the original link)

Five Miles of Grit: A long walk down Barton St. in Hamilton

Google Cache: link to full tour (or if you are feeling lucky, try the original link)

Corktown: an urban neighbourhood in Hamilton

Google Cache: link to full tour (or if you are feeling lucky, try the original link)

Twilight of the Industrial Age

Google Cache: link to full tour (or if you are feeling lucky, try the original link)

A Crazy Melange of Imagery from Hamilton

Google Cache: link to full tour (or if you are feeling lucky, try the original link)

One Hundred Pictures of HAMILTON

Google Cache: link to full tour (or if you are feeling lucky, try the original link)

Old Man Winter vs. Hamilton

Google Cache: link to full tour (or if you are feeling lucky, try the original link)

The Hammer Lives!

Google Cache: link to full tour (or if you are feeling lucky, try the original link)

-nite-life-

Google Cache: link to full tour (or if you are feeling lucky, try the original link)


These are not cached yet, so I can only offer up the original links:
Conquer and rule or serve and lose, suffer or triumph, be the anvil or THE HAMMER

Two rolls of black and white film
 

Edward Skira

http://skyrisecities.com
Staff member
Member Bio
Joined
Apr 22, 2007
Messages
13,167
Reaction score
10,294
Location
Toronto
C

coalminecanary

Guest
yeah he's done some great stuff... capturing the hamilton I know and see daily :)
 
C

coalminecanary

Guest
Good posts!

Enjoyed looking at the pixs of this place again (although I think you duplicated one picture with a strange caption).
oops you're right... fixed it.

FLAR has done some amazing photo tours. I try to explain to people the beauty of Hamilton but I can never come close to what these pictures show, so now I just send them links to his photo threads :)
 

Tewder

Senior Member
Member Bio
Joined
Apr 30, 2007
Messages
5,401
Reaction score
150
I challenge anyone here to ride a bike or walk on Brant Street near the QEW -- it's a nightmare. Nothing but high speed maniacal Burlington suburbanites, all flying by the nearby car dealerships, strip malls (and the soon-to-be-walmart) in order to get home asap. This is not pedestrian, transit or cyclist friendly despite the lip service paid out in mec's press release.

This paragraph basically makes you look like a closed minded fool who relies on stereotypes to back up your arguments. Maybe you aren't -- I don't know you. But it's a good basis for my assumption.
You should check your own posts before tossing around insults of others here.

Burlington has its fair share of problems, I agree completely, but it has changed enormously over the past ten years, and continues to do so, for the better. Invective notwithstanding, I argued that MEC, in a box store configuration, would work well in the Brant/QEW area which has a lot of box stores already, and is located at a busy junction of three major highways that lead to three major areas in the Golden Horseshoe (Toronto, Hamilton, Niagara). I agree that downtown Burlington or downtown Hamilton, areas that both have their problems and potentials, would work better/differently in different store-type iterations.
 

Top