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Moose Rail (National Capital Region)

ssiguy2

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Interesting idea.

London has expressed some interest in a similar commuter rail-type system serving St.Thomas, Strathroy, Ingersol and potentially Stratford and Woodstock.
 

steveintoronto

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Bit more background here:
Oct 07, 2015
[...]
This is the first proof-of-concept project of the “Property-Powered Rail (PPR) Open Market Development Model” developed by Potvin from The Opman Company of Chelsea in collaboration with several of the other firms, and peer-reviewed with international experts.

This past June, Potvin was invited by the US-based SMART Institute (Sustainable Mobility & Accessibility Research & Transformation) to bring the PPR into discussions at a strategy workshop in Philadelphia where officials from Amtrak and other companies were considering how to develop new mass transit systems throughout the US.

And in July, Michael Lachapelle of Business Model Fulcrum, another Moose Consortium member firm, presented the PPR model in London England at the first International Conference on Transportation and Public Health. Following his session, Dr. Luise Noring, Program Director of the Copenhagen School of Business began developing plans for a multi-institute research study to compare the Moose Consortium's commercial metropolitan railway concept for the Ottawa-Outaouais region, with the publicly funded metropolitan railway being planned for the cross-border region around Copenhagen, Denmark and Malmö, Sweden.

Noring said she saw the global relevance of the approach taken by the Moose Consortium, suggesting "it will be possible to transfer experience of the Ottawa-Outaouais infrastructure investment to North America and the world." [...]
http://www.ottawacommunitynews.com/...ject-becomes-official-with-agreement-signing/
 

ShonTron

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Not to pour too much water on this idea, but I can't see it making much financial sense.

Ottawa has a network of rural commuter bus routes, serving Renfrew, Lanark, Prescott & Russell, and Stormont, Dundas & Glengarry Counties. Until the Transitway was shut down for LRT construction, most of these privately-operated buses used it.

But except for Clarence-Rockland and Russell Township, which operates multiple runs, these routes are single trip buses, meant for 8 to 4 commuters. Clarence-Rockland and Russell Township are not well served by existing rail: you'd have to bring back the New York Central line, abandoned in 1958. Smiths Falls has VIA (not on a schedule that's useful for early morning commuters), but no commuter buses.

Buses seem to be doing the job fine. I certainly expect buses from Clarence-Rockland and Russell Township feeding the LRT when Phase I opens.

The biggest problem these days seems to be the STO Rapibus corridor: planned entirely in isolation, doesn't effectively serve any major trip generators, doesn't cross the Ottawa River. (Yes, many of the Rapibus routes serve Downtown Hull and Downtown Ottawa, but must go through regular traffic to do so.) Rail service to places like Arnprior, Wakefield and Kemptville should be nowhere near the top of Ottawa-Gatineau's priorities.
 

steveintoronto

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Not to pour too much water on this idea, but I can't see it making much financial sense.

Upon closer looking last night, I agree. I started to dig the background of some of the 'consortium'...and it's just a collection of persons with an ulterior motive, which might yet be served. None of them has any serious know-how or finance to make this project happen. Some of them I couldn't even determine what their business is, they're just numbered companies.

Other posters have pointed out that it's for 'land development'...which would fit the scenario of the numbered companies. But this exercise might pay off in terms of catalyzing interest and hope where there was little before. Time will tell.
 

mdrejhon

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But this exercise might pay off in terms of catalyzing interest and hope where there was little before. Time will tell.
This is key.

If I were to resurrect the wakefield steam train or fund the northern spur of this project with a Bayview stop, thos makes enough sense to look further into.

Several elements, independently, are worthy of being funded even without this project -- such as great new pedestrian/cycle infrastructure (separate govt pitch in).

Look at the pedestrianization of the "Big Four" iron rail bridge in Louisville, Kentucky -- it has become one of their bigger tourist draws! It is almost their new "TORONTO" sign now, #2 tourism right after Kentucky Derby.
 

P23

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Pure fantasy. I lived in Ottawa for many years and I don't see how there would be any demand at all for this service. Not only are there just not enough commuters to support it, but people in Ottawa have a very different attitude about transportation. They're very attached to their cars and Ottawa is still a car oriented city, being difficult to travel around outside the core. Even the younger generation mostly feels this way, although perhaps less so compared to the older population.
 

drum118

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This is key.

If I were to resurrect the wakefield steam train or fund the northern spur of this project with a Bayview stop, thos makes enough sense to look further into.

Several elements, independently, are worthy of being funded even without this project -- such as great new pedestrian/cycle infrastructure (separate govt pitch in).

Look at the pedestrianization of the "Big Four" iron rail bridge in Louisville, Kentucky -- it has become one of their bigger tourist draws! It is almost their new "TORONTO" sign now, #2 tourism right after Kentucky Derby.
That a nice "Big Four" bridge to see a night with the light show as well walking it. Saw it last year for the first time and hope to see more of it in Aug again. It would be nice to see steam trains in Ontario, but no tracks to do so for long runs.
 

treplow

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I would have loved something like this when I was living in Chelsea, where the only options for getting into the city were a) drive or b) two inbound/outbound peak hour STO buses daily (weekdays only). Not sure if the passenger demand justifies the proposed scope of the network but I really hope this happens, even a truncated version.
 

steveintoronto

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“We will have to buy new cars, we will put at level also some station, to wire them, some wire replacement we have to make, we're talking about an elevator,” said Montreal Mayor Denis Coderre.
Whoa...For a moment I though he was talking "catenary"...still not too sure what it is.
Much of the money for phase two will go to extended the metro’s blue line, as well as in creating a light rail system.

In April the Caisse de Depot proposed building a light rail system that would go over the Champlain bridge, and would connect to the West Island and Deux Montagnes as well, however the Caisse said it would still need $2.5 billion in government funding in order to proceed.

The announcement on that funding is expected over the next few months.
That's relevant to a number of forums at this site, not just this one, and remains a template that others, Ottawa included, might have to copy...which is probably the *real* intent of the Moose proposal. As much as they claim to be 'without subsidy'...we all know that's just PR. They're looking to attract capital to the Capital.
 

steveintoronto

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This takes us wider than this forum, but has great bearing on what Moose is missing. It's also the best coverage, *by far* I've seen on the Caisse concept for Montreal, and listen very closely to Sabia in the extended press meeting after the initial CTV coverage, Sabia is astoundingly good at making the case for the Caisse, and for *sane* planning and execution of rail transit.

When's the last time you heard a politician this straight forward and appealing to your higher senses? Mayor Bloomberg (NYC) is mine.

The link was for this was from my last post in the text, figured I'd just double check it since I posted it.

Caisse willing to fund half the cost of $5.5B, 67 km electric rail service
http://montreal.ctvnews.ca/caisse-w...of-5-5b-67-km-electric-rail-service-1.2870427

Sabia gives me great hope. If Montreal can do this, why not Toronto? OK...I can count the ways too...Hopefully Desjardins-Siciliano and Sabia have had some long discussions. The Caisse may have their hands full with Montreal, but the model is *ostensibly* about to prove itself. For Toronto, for VIA, for many other Cdn cities.

On the basis of it doing so, we have the grounds to copy it for Ottawa, and to get Toronto's starry-eyed aspirations happening in reality. THIS is a workable model for SmartTrack in lieu of the City's coffers being bare.

Edit to Add: Click on the video player linked, and let it run through the series of articles until the press conference. It lasts about half an hour, and it's riveting, the press ask excellent questions, and the answers are just as good.
 
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SaugeenJunction

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Came across a rendering of what MOOSE stations would potentially look like. From MOOSE Facebook page.
14202626_1758057011111839_2249796097223814376_n.jpg
 

mdrejhon

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Well. That train is big enough to scoop up most of the working population of many of the towns along the line in one fell swoop.
Supposedly, 3 coach consists. I think.

For at least one of the key route, I think it would have better ridership than Utah's Frontrunner -- they also use 3-coach consists of BiLevels -- scoop up some surplus BiLevels for cheap from GO if they begin needing to sell surplus during electrification.
 

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