Montréal Transit Developments

[NoahB]

Mayer Plante released her vision for Montreal transit. 180km of trams, according to the article, but I'm not sure where they got that number.

Montreal will build 200K more housing units, several tramways by 2050: Plante

Montrealers should expect to see 200,000 more housing units and several tramways by 2050, according to a new vision for the city unveiled by Mayor Valerie Plante.

montreal.ctvnews.ca

Anyone fluent in Frenchcan fish out more detail?

2050 Draft Land Use and Mobility Plan - Documents

View or download the documents of the 2050 Draft Land Use and Mobility Plan.

montreal.ca

2040:

From French:

Note: The vision for the development of the structuring public transportation network proposed by the City by 2040 is intended to be a response to the current and future priority travel needs of the Montreal population as well as a pathway leading to the achievement of targets metropolitan and governmental authorities in terms of mobility and the environment. This vision is part of an integrated planning approach for mobility and development by supporting a stated desire for urban intensification of the territory as well as the development of sectors of opportunity and that of emblematic territories.

In 2040, the structuring public transport network will be strengthened by the development of a tram network connecting the territory from west to east, the extension of the western branch of the orange line and the establishment of new rapid service corridors by bus, particularly in the north and east of the territory. Before proceeding with their implementation, the interventions planned in this vision must be the subject of opportunity, feasibility and financial analyzes studies by the designated planning authorities and obtain the approval of the Government of Quebec.

Map 1-2

Vision 2040 of the structuranta public transport network

Note: In 2050, Montreal will have an extensive structuring public transportation network that efficiently and equitably serves the entire territory while contributing to the achievement of metropolitan and government targets in terms of mobility and the environment. This network reflects the ongoing pursuit of development efforts undertaken over previous decades. The performance of the structuring public transport network is notably enhanced compared to 2040 by the addition of a new metro line (pink line), the extension of the blue metro line to the west as well as the extension of the network tramway throughout the territory.

Before proceeding with their realization, the interventions projected in this vision must be the subject of opportunity studies, feasibility and financial analyzes by the designated planning authorities and obtain the approval of the Government of Quebec.

For the cycling network too.

The map presents Montreal's ambition to have within 25 years a complete, safe, user-friendly and efficient superior cycling network throughout the territory. The cycle paths that remain to be built will be subject to rigorous planning which will make it possible to confirm the proposed routes and the developments best suited to the environments crossed. In the event that the characteristics of the street pose planning challenges for the implementation of a cycle network axis, studies will be carried out to specify the optimal and innovative solutions to be put in place in terms of sharing the street. with a view to sustainable mobility.

The vision for the development of the pedestrian network will be initiated by the establishment of the first pedestrian priority zones as well as the creation of green corridors which are added to the pedestrian network already present in the territory. This pedestrian priority network is designed to encourage walking and breaks for a slow and safe experience of the City. Green corridors are recreational pedestrian and cycle paths that connect the city's large parks through safe, friendly and green developments.

All the translations are done using Google, so it might not be the most accurate.

 

[treplow]

So I take it the REM East is officially dead?

 

[Urban Sky]

So I take it the REM East is officially dead?

I believe it has been so eversince the CDPQi abandoned the project more than a year ago…

 

[NoahB]

So I take it the REM East is officially dead?

Plante mentioned in the news article that if the Provincial Gov wanted to fund and build metro lines instead of trams, she was up for it. But said that she thinks trams are more cost-effective, so that is what they will plan.

 

[Bojaxs]

Mayer Plante released her vision for Montreal transit. 180km of trams, according to the article, but I'm not sure where they got that number.

Montreal will build 200K more housing units, several tramways by 2050: Plante

Montrealers should expect to see 200,000 more housing units and several tramways by 2050, according to a new vision for the city unveiled by Mayor Valerie Plante.

montreal.ctvnews.ca

Anyone fluent in Frenchcan fish out more detail?

2050 Draft Land Use and Mobility Plan - Documents

View or download the documents of the 2050 Draft Land Use and Mobility Plan.

montreal.ca

2040:
View attachment 572059
From French:


View attachment 572060



For the cycling network too.
View attachment 572064



All the translations are done using Google, so it might not be the most accurate.

Looks like Montreal's version of "Transit City".

It's really frustrating that after the city completely kiboshed EXO's future by sacrificing Gare Centrale for REM, the city has decided it isn't going to make the best of a terrible situation and extend REM eastward. Instead they're going to build streetcars. They keep using the word "tram", thinking they can slip a fast one on us. When I do a google image search on "Trams", you get images of streetcars.

In fact Wikipedia says that "tram" is just another word for streetcar.

Tram - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Going off of the renders accompanying this proposal, Montreal is planning to run street cars down the middle of a highway???

Unless I missed it, nothing in this proposal talks about improving EXO.

Quebec/ Montreal wants to build a vast streetcar network, yet make no investments into EXO. Which means the streetcars will be stuck in traffic as the roads will be clogged with traffic from suburbanites trying to get into the city and find parking.

 

[Urban Sky]

It's really frustrating that after the city completely kiboshed EXO's future by sacrificing Gare Centrale for REM, the city has decided it isn't going to make the best of the terrible situation and extend REM eastward.

Allowing the REM to build the way it was build was indeed a brutal attempt of strategic planning with a sledgehammer, but given that experience, I struggle to blame anyone who didn’t want to take a second chance of blindly adopting one of the CDPQ’s brainchildren…

Instead they're going to build streetcars. They keep using the word "tram", thinking they can slip a fast one on us. When I do a google image search on "Trams", you get images of streetcars.

In fact Wikipedia says that "tram" is just another word for streetcar.

Tram - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Going off of the renders accompanying this proposal, Montreal is planning to run street cars down the middle of a highway???

I would take “Tram” as synonymous with “LRT” and as counterpoint to a “Light Metro”. In reference to Toronto, this would resemble much more the ECLRT or Finch LRT than the Ontario Line (or Scarborough RT)…

Unless I missed it, nothing in this proposal talks about improving EXO.

Quebec/ Montreal wants to build a vast streetcar network, yet make no investments into EXO.

It’s rather difficult to invest in the future of a mode which had its prospects massacred with a chainsaw…

Which means the streetcars will be stuck in traffic as the roads will be clogged with traffic from suburbanites trying to get into the city and find parking.

Have a look at the ECLRT: except at road intersections East of Laird, it is entirely segregated from road traffic…

 

[Bojaxs]

I would take “Tram” as synonymous with “LRT” and as counterpoint to a “Light Metro”.

The terms have become so interchangeable, they don't even mean anything anymore. I'm sure there are people out there who would say the REM is a tram.

 

[Urban Sky]

The terms have become so interchangeable, they don't even mean anything anymore. I'm sure there are people out there who would say the REM is a tram.

I think it’s pretty clear that Mme Plante has something substantially different from the REM in mind when she contemplates about “Trams”, but my entire point was that that doesn’t necessarily mean Toronto-style streetcars either. After all, Toronto is moving away from these classic tramways…

 

[NoahB]

Looks like Montreal's version of "Transit City".

It's really frustrating that after the city completely kiboshed EXO's future by sacrificing Gare Centrale for REM, the city has decided it isn't going to make the best of a terrible situation and extend REM eastward. Instead they're going to build streetcars. They keep using the word "tram", thinking they can slip a fast one on us. When I do a google image search on "Trams", you get images of streetcars.

The current plan that replaced REM East includes a tram with some portions running in the median of Highway 40.

It might even have a tunnel portion in Repentigny if ARTM's renders are an indication.

It's more of a tram in the UK sense where it will run on the streets on its own dedicated lanes in portions and grade separated in other portions. An example is Manchester Metrolink.

More info here:

ARTM proposes tramway project for eastern Montreal that skips direct link to downtown

The project would cost $18 billion and link to the métro's Green Line with a train or tramway.

montrealgazette.com

 

[Northern Light]

From the Gazette piece linked above we get a route map that is clearer and less cluttered:

We also have a render of an 'urban' (suburban) street section:

I need more detail to assess the thing............. but at first blush, I'm not entirely sold.

That's a lot of money, a lot of track, but questionable average speeds, capacity and convenience.

 

[drum118]

From the Gazette piece linked above we get a route map that is clearer and less cluttered:

View attachment 572318

We also have a render of an 'urban' (suburban) street section:

View attachment 572319

I need more detail to assess the thing............. but at first blush, I'm not entirely sold.

That's a lot of money, a lot of track, but questionable average speeds, capacity and convenience.

You will find this in Europe that works very well with most having a single lane of traffic and no turning lane. Even with 2 lanes it works well. At least they are going green for the ROW compared to the GTA that use concrete,

 

[Northern Light]

You will find this in Europe that works very well with most having a single lane of traffic and no turning lane. Even with 2 lanes it works well. At least they are going green for the ROW compared to the GTA that use concrete,

I've been all over Europe; I didn't argue against trams/LRTs, etc.

Rather, my concerns here, without further data are that the average running speed for a long distance route (not a local route) is a concern, that its integration to downtown is a concern, in terms of meeting the needs of riders here, and that capacity may prove inadequate to purpose.

Those concerns may be misplaced, but I need the data to assess that.

In general, my reading of French media suggests concern from many east end groups that this solution is 'better something than nothing', which is not the sort of endorsement you want for an 18B investment.

I'm inclined to wonder if this is the correct modality over this entire route.

I think the branch along boulevard Lacordaire might be suited to LRT, while the longer journey out to Repentigny really seems better suited to commuter rail.

The intermediate points feel more like a potential, but shorter extension of either or both the Green/Blue Lines, probably only 1 stop further than existing/proposed and then either you stay w/buses, or you look at a much shorter tram route to meet higher capacity local/feeder demand.

I would look for more input from our Montreal membership or Montreal ex-pats on this.

​

 

[ARG1]

Looks like Montreal's version of "Transit City".

It's really frustrating that after the city completely kiboshed EXO's future by sacrificing Gare Centrale for REM, the city has decided it isn't going to make the best of a terrible situation and extend REM eastward. Instead they're going to build streetcars. They keep using the word "tram", thinking they can slip a fast one on us. When I do a google image search on "Trams", you get images of streetcars.

In fact Wikipedia says that "tram" is just another word for streetcar.

Tram - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Going off of the renders accompanying this proposal, Montreal is planning to run street cars down the middle of a highway???

Unless I missed it, nothing in this proposal talks about improving EXO.

Quebec/ Montreal wants to build a vast streetcar network, yet make no investments into EXO. Which means the streetcars will be stuck in traffic as the roads will be clogged with traffic from suburbanites trying to get into the city and find parking.

The big difference between Trams and Streetcars is that Europe slowly and over a long period of time upgraded their Trams to have dedicated lanes, larger vehicles, and overall resemble higher order light rail.

North American cities meanwhile either ripped up their Streetcars, or left them to rot. As such the term "Light Rail" was basically invented to sell the concept of modern Trams to a continent that has an outdated/bleak view of streetcars.

 

[smallspy]

The big difference between Trams and Streetcars is that Europe slowly and over a long period of time upgraded their Trams to have dedicated lanes, larger vehicles, and overall resemble higher order light rail.

That is only true in some very select places, predominantly parts of Germany. In most other cities in Europe, their tram/streetcar system looks identical to what it did 50 or more years ago, just with larger vehicles.

This is as opposed to the modern systems such as Paris, London, Dublin, etc., which were built from the ground-up as a more segregated system without full separation.

North American cities meanwhile either ripped up their Streetcars, or left them to rot. As such the term "Light Rail" was basically invented to sell the concept of modern Trams to a continent that has an outdated/bleak view of streetcars.

I guess that's one take on it.

Another is that it was sold as a means of getting a higher-order transit system up and running where one didn't exist but was needed, and didn't need the huge initial costs of a full-blown subway system. See San Diego, Buffalo, Calgary, Edmonton, etc.

Dan

 

[NoahB]

CDPQ's new rail plan for Quebec City. Mix of tram and BRT routes built in 3 phases.