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Montréal Transit Developments

I get, unfortunately, the politics of it but let's just assume it was going thru a farmer's field, why couldn't it be elevated? If the tracks are simply heated to make sure there was no ice and/or snow on them, why can't they run outside?
 
I get, unfortunately, the politics of it but let's just assume it was going thru a farmer's field, why couldn't it be elevated? If the tracks are simply heated to make sure there was no ice and/or snow on them, why can't they run outside?
I'd think the bigger concern outdoors is that the concrete runway be heated - not just the tracks.
 
I was bored tonight and found myself checking out EXO's network on Google maps. The placement of the stations leaves a lot to be desired. A lot of stations on the network remind me of the recently closed down, York University station that used to exist on the Barrie line.

Who's getting on & off at this station?

Some of the stations are very bare bones and are essentially slapped together with lumber.

The platform at this station isn't even long enough for 1 coach.

This station located in an area full of automotive "chop shops"

Does CN & CP actually allow commuter trains to go right through their intermodal yards?
 
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I was bored tonight and found myself checking out EXO's network on Google maps. The placement of the stations leaves a lot to be desired. A lot of stations on the network remind me of the, recently closed down, York University station that used to exist on the Barrie line.

Who's getting on & off at this station?

Some of the stations are very bare bones and are essentially slapped together with lumber.

The platform at this station isn't even long enough for 1 coach.

This station located in an area full of automotive "chop shops"

Does CN & CP actually allow commuter trains to go right through their intermodal yards?
You missed this: A station where there was a rail crossing cutting straight through the middle of the platform (Deux-Montagnes line, closed for REM consruction).

 
Alright, who's the jokester at NouvLR that thought of leaving treads at Anse-à-l'Orme in this fashion, for Google satellite view...

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Source
 
Recent news:

STM cancels their platform screen door project, citing lack of funding. (Confusingly the province says they would have paid for it)

Blue Line major excavations are starting at the end of September. The project will build 5 stations, 6km of new subway tunnel, and 1.5km of tunnels for a new underground garage. The cost has increased from an estimate of 3.9B in 2018 to 7.6B now.

REM has started train testing in the West Island using a temporary control center.
An important milestone in our dynamic trials has been taken in recent days. For the past few weeks, the REM cars from our temporary control center in Saint-Eustache have been going all the way to the island of Montreal, at the station Du Ruisseau. But for the past few days, they've been doing it fully automated. This is one step closer to the completion of our network.
Remember that the phase called dynamic testing is to ensure that our facilities, be it cars, rails, stations and communications between cars. Rehearsals are going well, progress is continuing. Next destination: West Island!
Thanks to all our partners, including Alstom
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Photo credit: ALSTOM/C. Fleury
 
EXO is dying. Service getting slashed in an attempt to cut costs.

3 of the least used lines could potentially be replaced with buses. REM replaced the busiest line.

This is actually depressing. I can't begin to stress how only having 2 commuter/regional rail lines for a city Montreal's size is beyond abysmal (cities like Vancouver where existing surface rail doesn't really go anywhere notwithstanding). It gets even worse considering that one of the cut lines is the Mascouche Line, a line that only opened a decade ago, and cost 2/3 of a Billion Dollars.

Let's also not ignore how this reduces Gare Centrale to being exclusively a station for the occasional VIA train.
 
I'm surprised. GO peak demand is down, but the increase in off-peak and weekend demand more than makes up for it.
 
I'm surprised. GO peak demand is down, but the increase in off-peak and weekend demand more than makes up for it.
The trick is GO actually has usable off peak and weekend service, with 5 of our lines running at least hourly in the core sections of the network. Exo doesn't have this, Exo has a select number of trains that just kinda show up whenever, with no concrete form of clockface scheduling or anything like that. In fact, looking at the SJ line, there are only 3 trains per direction between the morning and evening rush hours (and this is one of the two lines that isn't being slashed in the proposal).

Every Exo line more or less has 1 of 2 problems, either 1) don't really go anywhere useful (this applies to the Candiac and Mt Saint Hillaire Lines where the sprawl quickly tapers off after crossing into the south shore), or 2) Have trouble reaching Downtown Montreal, which often means its faster to just transfer to the Metro than to go around the Mountain (SJ and Mascouche - hell, weekend SJ trains only go as far south as De la Concorde, not even crossing into the island of Montreal). The only lines historically that didn't have these issues are the DM and VH lines which by no coincidence are the oldest and consistently highest ridership routes on the network (at least until DM was closed to make way for the REM).

Now theoretically its possible for Masouche to have not had this problem since it did use the MR tunnel for a while, and perhaps back then it could've worked if they could run more trains on it (barring of course everything beyond Repentigny since the segment to Mascouche is an unholy abomination) which makes this cut even more dissapointing. Meanwhile the SJ despite the long route around the Mont Royal seems to get some semblence of ridership since it travels through a reasonable amount of development.

Edit: I was sent a chart showing ridership recovery per lane post pandemic, its really really bad:

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Good grief. What's STM ridership like after Covid? What's different (other than the current service levels) in Montreal compared to here?

I didn't find the Rigaud/Hudson line difficult when I used to ride it counterpeak and to get to West Island on weekends, 35 years ago. Yeah, you had to make sure you caught the rare train ... or risk schlepping downtown to get the 211.
 
The trick is GO actually has usable off peak and weekend service, with 5 of our lines running at least hourly in the core sections of the network. Exo doesn't have this, Exo has a select number of trains that just kinda show up whenever, with no concrete form of clockface scheduling or anything like that. In fact, looking at the SJ line, there are only 3 trains per direction between the morning and evening rush hours (and this is one of the two lines that isn't being slashed in the proposal).

Every Exo line more or less has 1 of 2 problems, either 1) don't really go anywhere useful (this applies to the Candiac and Mt Saint Hillaire Lines where the sprawl quickly tapers off after crossing into the south shore), or 2) Have trouble reaching Downtown Montreal, which often means its faster to just transfer to the Metro than to go around the Mountain (SJ and Mascouche - hell, weekend SJ trains only go as far south as De la Concorde, not even crossing into the island of Montreal). The only lines historically that didn't have these issues are the DM and VH lines which by no coincidence are the oldest and consistently highest ridership routes on the network (at least until DM was closed to make way for the REM).

Now theoretically its possible for Masouche to have not had this problem since it did use the MR tunnel for a while, and perhaps back then it could've worked if they could run more trains on it (barring of course everything beyond Repentigny since the segment to Mascouche is an unholy abomination) which makes this cut even more dissapointing. Meanwhile the SJ despite the long route around the Mont Royal seems to get some semblence of ridership since it travels through a reasonable amount of development.

Edit: I was sent a chart showing ridership recovery per lane post pandemic, its really really bad:

View attachment 595628
You kind of have to wonder if the REM has done more damage than good? Does it still prevent the Mascouche line from going through the Mount Royale tunnel? Does the train still have to take the 30 minute detour between the CN & CP yard?

REM has permanently prevented Gare Centrale from becoming Montreal's version of Toronto Union station.

Is the operating cost for the REM higher than the EXO line it replaced? Could the money for REM not have been better spent improving EXO?

What was wrong with the DM line that the city figured they should replace it with the REM?
 
Good grief. What's STM ridership like after Covid? What's different (other than the current service levels) in Montreal compared to here?

I didn't find the Rigaud/Hudson line difficult when I used to ride it counterpeak and to get to West Island on weekends, 35 years ago. Yeah, you had to make sure you caught the rare train ... or risk schlepping downtown to get the 211.
The other thing to consider that I didn't mention before, is something I might call "GO Bus 18 syndrome", its when you have a parallel bus route that's actually faster and more convenient than your rail service, that using your rail service is seen as a detriment. For what it's worth, even though Exo rail is in a massive slump and is struggling to regain ridership partly due to its antiquated 9-5 business model, exo busses are doing better than ever, especially bus routes that duplicate rail services (Mont St-Hillaire is probably the best example of this). It will probably take a lot of money to upgrade and refurbish these lines to make them competitive against their busses (especially off peak), and that's money I don't imagine the ARTM wants to spend.

You kind of have to wonder if the REM has done more damage than good? Does it still prevent the Mascouche line from going through the Mount Royale tunnel? Does the train still have to take the 30 minute detour between the CN & CP yard?

REM has permanently prevented Gare Centrale from becoming Montreal's version of Toronto Union station.

Is the operating cost for the REM higher than the EXO line it replaced? Could the money for REM not have been better spent improving EXO?

What was wrong with the DM line that the city figured they should replace it with the REM?
So the answer to this question really depends on whether you're taking a holistic/idealistic view of transit planning in Montreal, or you're taking a more pragmatic view of the state of transit planning back then (and frankly, today as well).

If idealistic, then the answer is... probably not? In an ideal world the Mont Royal tunnel is preserved as a major piece of infrastructure to allow for through service in Gare Centrale to be used by several new lines including separate Mascouche and Repentigny Lines, a double tracked DM line, as well as used as a through station for VIA HFR. However, that's not the world we live in.

The world we live in is one where the ARTM and its predecessor the AMT are absolutely awful at getting anything done, where transit plans have a life span of no more than a year, and even something like refurbishing the DM line was a political quagmire. The reason why the REM exists at all is because it wasn't planned or operated by the AMT/ARTM, and was instead a "private" venture by the CDPQ (as private as a provincially run pension can be). In terms of origins, the goal of the line was to connect to the south shore, west island, and airports, however the CDPQ also asked to hand over access to DM and Mont Royal Tunnel because there was a concern they couldn't get enough ridership with the west islands and Airport alone, (let alone justify the cost of building a brand new tunnel), so in the absence of any other plans, reusing the DM line for a project like the REM is frankly a no brainer. Being realistic, it was either the REM or nothing at all, and in that context, the REM is an absolutely amazing project.

In terms of answering your specific questions:
1) No, but the Mascouche trains won't be travelling around the mountain to reach GC either. Instead the trains will be terminating at the Cote-de-Liesse REM station, not exactly a cross platform tranfer... well ok it technically is but only to (I believe) the northbound platform.
2) "Permanently" is a harsh term. In theory there's nothing stopping Montreal from building a 2nd tunnel, probably travelling from GC to Parc. This would allow for similar improvements as before, such as direct rail access to Repentigny and Mascouche, while also allowing SJ line trains to go directly to GC as well (and through running HFR trains). The question is when and for how much.
3) Almost certainly not.
4) Someone actually had the money to build it.
 
The other thing to consider that I didn't mention before, is something I might call "GO Bus 18 syndrome", its when you have a parallel bus route that's actually faster and more convenient than your rail service, that using your rail service is seen as a detriment. For what it's worth, even though Exo rail is in a massive slump and is struggling to regain ridership partly due to its antiquated 9-5 business model, exo busses are doing better than ever, especially bus routes that duplicate rail services (Mont St-Hillaire is probably the best example of this). It will probably take a lot of money to upgrade and refurbish these lines to make them competitive against their busses (especially off peak), and that's money I don't imagine the ARTM wants to spend.
From our perspective, it seems odd that buses would be challenging rail for speed, at peak. I've never commuted inbound to St. Hilaire at peak , only occasionally outbound at peak, and that wasn't pretty.

Have they added bus lanes or something? It's not like rush-hou driving times are down here - they seem worse than 10 years ago to me; at least counter-peak as I live near downtown.

I can certainly see why the Repentigny ridership is way down.
 

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