Montréal Transit Developments

[SFO-YYZ]

Well yes, REM may be considered S-Bahn but it only covers half the city. Until it covers the entire city, it's no S-Bahn system.
The beauty of the S-Bahn system in Berlin is that it is so robustly supported by equally well developed regional trains, U-Bahn, trams, buses, etc.
I applaud all efforts that we are making at expanding our transit options in Canadian cities but let's be crystal clear: we will NEVER catch up to Berlin-level transit. It's simply not possible. Whatever we're currently doing to expand our transit they're doing even more to expand their already vastly superior network. We will never catch up, we're way too far behind to begin with and despite whatever we do, they keep doing more. They continue to expand the lead.

Paaaleeease feel free to move back to Berlin after Covid-19. Seriously, it is our unanimous feeling that you'll be so much happier there. Clearly Montreal/Canada is a backwater state that will NEVER catch up to Berlin's elevated, world-class standards. NEVER, because you know, you clearly have some sort of oracle that is able to tell you without a shred of doubt what will happen to cities and societies from now until the end of time.

 

[nephersir7]

The ARTM has unveiled its upcoming fare zones proposal. All services (bus, metro, train, REM) will be included in the monthly passes.

Simplified fare plan proposed for public transit in Montreal region

The work by the planning body — which oversees local transit agencies — will be the subject of public consultations in the coming weeks.

montrealgazette.com

 

[nfitz]

I don't get this. How can entire island be $90/month including metro, bus, Exo, when Exo now has 3 zones for the island, and that can cost up to $144/month (including bus and metro) (and $122/month for just train).

Something doesn't add up. Why wouldn't one just get the one including the REM.

If the information is correct - where's the huge amount of extra subsidy coming from?

 

[NoahB]

I don't get this. How can entire island be $90/month including metro, bus, Exo, when Exo now has 3 zones for the island, and that can cost up to $144/month (including bus and metro) (and $122/month for just train).

Something doesn't add up. Why wouldn't one just get the one including the REM.

If the information is correct - where's the huge amount of extra subsidy coming from?

All fairs include the REM, bus, Metro, and EXO where applicable from what I understand.

 

[nfitz]

All fairs include the REM, bus, Metro, and EXO where applicable from what I understand.

It looks like they are simplifying ... or at least going back to the old system, where the entire island is one zone from back when STM (or STCUM) ran the trains, and you just had a regular pass for Bus/Metro and the few dollars more for one that was bus/metro/and the trains on-island.

But it hardly looks revenue neutral. Someone is subsidizing it ... surely.

 

[nephersir7]

where's the huge amount of extra subsidy coming from?

The people whose fares will be increased will compensate for those whose fares will be decreased.

The biggest losers seem to be people from Brossard who currently only need to take RTL buses to go downtown. Their fare will be increased from $100 to $144 per month when the REM replaces the bus service.

All fairs include the REM, bus, Metro, and EXO where applicable from what I understand.

Correct. There will also be a different fare which will only include buses (zones 1+2+3), for $110/month.

I found an English summary of the proposed changes:

https://repensonslamobilite.quebec/media/default/0001/01/2c766b681bba26d228e59906fe96464207b8253b.pdf

 

[CityStay]

That's a different definition of S-Bahn than I'm familiar with. As you seem to have more familiarity with this type of system, can you point to where the definition of S-Bahn is network-based rather than vehicle/capacity/design-related?

Also, looking at the S-Bahn Mittelelbe - that's only a single line, with only 9 stations in the city. How is that an S-Bahn then - or is there something lost in translation, where it's an S-Bahn in German, but not an S-Bahn in English?

Looks like the off-peak frequency on this S-Bahn is every 30 minutes. Is the REM not an S-Bahn because it's too frequent?

View attachment 267539

Well there's no set definition of what constitutes S-Bahn so you can call anything S-Bahn. Saxony-Anhalt calls their local transportation network S-Bahn whereas neighbouring Brandenberg and Berlin would designate the same trains Regional Bahn (RB), a category that fits between Regional Express (RE) and Berlin S-Bahn. That line - S1 - has 29 stops - 9 in Magdeburg and 20 that serve tiny rural towns. The 2 largest cities in S-A are Halle and Magdeburg, both less than 250,000 pop., so their network connects little towns with little cities. Maybe they called it S to differentiate between the DB regional, express and intercity trains. Who knows, who cares? Would it be considered S in Berlin? Definitely not. There are cities in Germany that run trams and call them U, others call the same trams S. Does it matter? Definitely not. Does anybody care? Well, apparently..
Here's a map of Magdeburg's 9 line tram network, S-Bahn stations in green, a city roughly half the size of London, ON. Halle has 12 lines!

And here's a video of a train that would be designated 'S-Bahn' in S-A but is an RB train in Berlin. They even use the same trains on some lines - Talent B.

 

[CityStay]

Paaaleeease feel free to move back to Berlin after Covid-19. Seriously, it is our unanimous feeling that you'll be so much happier there. Clearly Montreal/Canada is a backwater state that will NEVER catch up to Berlin's elevated, world-class standards. NEVER, because you know, you clearly have some sort of oracle that is able to tell you without a shred of doubt what will happen to cities and societies from now until the end of time.

Don't get me wrong, I love the REM and am really excited to see it running but it only serves the west side of the city. I hope it will be extended north, east and into the southwest. Until then it will only be 1/3 to 1/2 of a system.
But it's super cool!

 

[sacred]

Well there's no set definition of what constitutes S-Bahn so you can call anything S-Bahn. Saxony-Anhalt calls their local transportation network S-Bahn whereas neighbouring Brandenberg and Berlin would designate the same trains Regional Bahn (RB), a category that fits between Regional Express (RE) and Berlin S-Bahn. That line - S1 - has 29 stops - 9 in Magdeburg and 20 that serve tiny rural towns. The 2 largest cities in S-A are Halle and Magdeburg, both less than 250,000 pop., so their network connects little towns with little cities. Maybe they called it S to differentiate between the DB regional, express and intercity trains. Who knows, who cares? Would it be considered S in Berlin? Definitely not. There are cities in Germany that run trams and call them U, others call the same trams S. Does it matter? Definitely not. Does anybody care? Well, apparently..
Here's a map of Magdeburg's 9 line tram network, S-Bahn stations in green, a city roughly half the size of London, ON. Halle has 12 lines! View attachment 267804
And here's a video of a train that would be designated 'S-Bahn' in S-A but is an RB train in Berlin. They even use the same trains on some lines - Talent B.

Is there a Berlin thread somewhere?

Don't get me wrong, I love the REM and am really excited to see it running but it only serves the west side of the city. I hope it will be extended north, east and into the southwest. Until then it will only be 1/3 to 1/2 of a system.
But it's super cool!

I would have said something similar about the Metro before the REM was announced. The REM unlocks so many journeys for me and people like me. I feel that maybe people who don't live anywhere near it don't realize it, but being able to go from the South Shore to UdeM in under half an hour is transformational. I live close to transit and going there takes well over an hour right now, with at least three transfers required.

 

[CityStay]

Is there a Berlin thread somewhere?

I would have said something similar about the Metro before the REM was announced. The REM unlocks so many journeys for me and people like me. I feel that maybe people who don't live anywhere near it don't realize it, but being able to go from the South Shore to UdeM in under half an hour is transformational. I live close to transit and going there takes well over an hour right now, with at least three transfers required.

I have no doubt that REM will be awesome for the people who will have access to it, I just hope that it will become a city-wide system.

I chose to live near the metro, I didn't wait for the metro to chose me. I live next to De Castelnau on the blue line (a few blocks away from Jean-Talon metro) so I will be able to hook up with REM at Édouard-Monpetit to go downtown or to the airport. Cool! I work in St-Laurent, a fairly easy 45 min. metro-metro-bus which takes me literally from door to door (2 minute walk at either end). I'm lucky, many others are not.
I may be able to do a metro-REM-bus in the future but I doubt it would result in any time saving, judging by the location of Technoparc station.

I mention Berlin because I lived there and because I think it has a system we should aspire to. Too often, Canadians are happy with "Well, at least we're better than the States!". I'm so sick of hearing that tired old excuse. Declining health care? "Well in the States it costs 10 grand for a broken arm!". Increasing gun violence? "Well Chicago had 500 murders last year!" Bad transit? "Well in the States transit sucks even more!"

Being "better than the States" in any given category is not necessarily a great measure of success on a global scale.

We should take our cues from the best in the world instead of simply being content not to be the worst.

 

[nfitz]

Is there a Berlin thread somewhere?

I think first we take New York - then we take Berlin.

The people whose fares will be increased will compensate for those whose fares will be decreased.

The biggest losers seem to be people from Brossard who currently only need to take RTL buses to go downtown. Their fare will be increased from $100 to $144 per month when the REM replaces the bus service.

But (as you note) only $110 for those who remain on buses.

Those switching from 100% buses to trains are seeing a fare increase - but that doesn't make the entire change revenue netural. Many many more who never leave the island,are going to get significant cuts. I can't off-hand see a scenario where those on the island will see an increase.

What's it to Laval and Longueuil metro passes (though once upon a time, metro and even local buses in Longueuil were on the same pass as the entire island of Montreal - back when MUCTC operated the local Longueuil buses.

 

[Coolstar]

The REM station at Montreal airport under threat
"The global crisis facing air transport due to the COVID-19 pandemic is undermining one of the flagship stations of the Metropolitan Express Network, that of Montreal-Trudeau airport.

Our Bureau of Investigation has learned that the construction of the station planned under the terminal, which was to connect the airport and downtown Montreal in 20 minutes, is being compromised by serious financial difficulties."

La station du REM à l’aéroport de Montréal menacée

La crise que traverse le transport aérien en raison de la pandémie de COVID-19 met à mal l’une des stations phares du Réseau express métropolitain.

www.journaldemontreal.com

 

[NoahB]

The Federal study on the Dorval station is expected to come out today.

New federal study examines pros and cons of Dorval REM extension

A new federal study examines whether an REM extension to the Dorval train station would boost passenger usage on the REM light-rail network.

montrealgazette.com

 

[p_xavier]

The reports recommends extending the REM to Dorval station.

Should the REM be extended to the Dorval train station? | Watch News Videos Online

Watch Should the REM be extended to the Dorval train station? Video Online, on GlobalNews.ca

globalnews.ca

 

[NoahB]

The reports recommends extending the REM to Dorval station.

Should the REM be extended to the Dorval train station? | Watch News Videos Online

Watch Should the REM be extended to the Dorval train station? Video Online, on GlobalNews.ca

globalnews.ca

They reported in the video that "it would take 10 minutes to travel [between the airport and Dorval] at 35km/h."
I hope they meant to say the frequency of 10 minutes otherwise somethings is very wrong here. haha

Does anyone have the report? I'm having trouble finding it.