Montréal Transit Developments

[blacksquirrels]

From the REM website:

"Once commissioned, the REM will have a frequency of 150 seconds on the main segment (Rive-Sud – Bois-Franc) during peak hours. However, its technology allows for a frequency of up to 90 seconds, which means that capacity can be increased by two-thirds. If ridership increases significantly in coming decades, the frequency and number of trains in service on the network may be increased accordingly."

That means hey can run up to 40 trains an hour. They can probably reach very close to that realistically with the platform screen doors and perimeter-seating arrangement they are using. Assuming 600 people per 4 car trainset(80m) that's 24k ppdph. (They claim that they can fit as many as 780 people but I don't really believe that.)

The number of train cars don't matter as much as the train length and width of usable space inside. For example. in Vancouver, they run 6-car 'Mark I' and 4-car 'Mark III'. The Mark III fits almost 50 more people even though it is 10m shorter than the Mark I.




That's basically what the Ontario Line seems to be.
[/QUOTE]

Regarding the number of train cars, I'm just assuming the max capacity based on the claim that Alstom Metropolis vehicles will be used. Sydney Metro will run 6 car and eventually 8 car configurations @ a 2 minute frequency for roughly 45k pphpd. 90 seconds seems ambitious and somewhat unrealistic, but if it can scale to that then that's impressive.

As far as the Ontario Line goes, we'll see if that even ever gets built. I'm thinking something like the Ontario Line + a second line (Smart Track) along the Stoufville corridor with a spur to STC would have been ideal. Then it becomes more of a network as opposed to one potentially under capacity line.

Something like this.

 

[blacksquirrels]

5 cars at most is what's planned.

5 cars seems so random, but if that's what 80m platforms can accommodate then I guess it makes sense.

 

[WislaHD]

Here's the official presentation of LÉEO.

Carte interactive - Un visuel interactif du projet Léeo

Un projet audacieux qui redéfinira la mobilité est-ouest sur la Rive-Sud, particulièrement sur le territoire de l'agglomération de Longueuil.

leeo.longueuil.quebec

I am happy to see that Montreal is entering the 2020s taking the transit portfolio seriously.

At least there is one part of the country who does.

 

[nephersir7]

5 cars seems so random, but if that's what 80m platforms can accommodate then I guess it makes sense.

The REM's 80m platforms can only accommodate 4 cars. The 5 car solution is potentially feasible, but unlikely to ever happen.

It would require trains longer than the platform, with the overflowing doors being disabled.

It would also require a special rolling stock order to convert 2-2 trains into 2-3 trains.

Maybe when the fleet gets renewed in 2060-2065...

 

[NoahB]

The REM's 80m platforms can only accommodate 4 cars. The 5 car solution is potentially feasible, but unlikely to ever happen.

It would require trains longer than the platform, with the overflowing doors being disabled.

It would also require a special rolling stock order to convert 2-2 trains into 2-3 trains.

Maybe when the fleet gets renewed in 2060-2065...

The 5 car version will require a platform extension to 100m. Also, these kinds of systems can handle different kinds of rolling stock. They can just bring in a 5 car permanently coupled cars. If the ridership warrants 5 cars, they won't need the 2 car version anymore.

 

[p_xavier]

The 5 car version will require a platform extension to 100m. Also, these kinds of systems can handle different kinds of rolling stock. They can just bring in a 5 car permanently coupled cars. If the ridership warrants 5 cars, they won't need the 2 car version anymore.

No, overhang and closed doors and also might be no because of platform screen doors.

 

[blacksquirrels]

The REM's 80m platforms can only accommodate 4 cars. The 5 car solution is potentially feasible, but unlikely to ever happen.

It would require trains longer than the platform, with the overflowing doors being disabled.

It would also require a special rolling stock order to convert 2-2 trains into 2-3 trains.

Maybe when the fleet gets renewed in 2060-2065...

Ok that makes more sense. Thanks for the breakdown.

4 car configurations should be able to accommodate roughly 750 passengers per train. So around 18,000 pphpd for 24 trains per hour, 22,500 for 30 trains per hour & 30,000 for 40 trains per hour even with 80m platforms. And it'll all be completed by 2023. Yeah this is putting Toronto to shame. Doubt we even break ground before then on the Ontario/Relief Line. Here's what I see happening. Ford probably won't get re-elected, then the new government will want to revert back to the old Relief Line plan which will require a brand new EA + more public consultations and won't break ground before the follow election cycle. Rinse and repeat. It's almost become a joke at this point. Toronto deserves better than this.

 

[jje1000]

Doubt we even break ground before then on the Ontario/Relief Line. Here's what I see happening. Ford probably won't get re-elected, then the new government will want to revert back to the old Relief Line plan which will require a brand new EA + more public consultations and won't break ground before the follow election cycle. Rinse and repeat. It's almost become a joke at this point. Toronto deserves better than this.

Meh, alternative non-doomer take:
1.) Ford gets reelected with a minority government. This is more than likely given the likely Liberal candidate (Del Duca). Project goes ahead, or with minor changes if the Opposition is up to the task.
2.) Alternate pragmatic government elected to power. They declare the plan 'good enough', and the project goes ahead with minor changes/cost-cutting moves (i.e. removing Exhibition portion of the line).
3.) Alternate ideological government elected to power. They return to the DRL plans, and utilizing the streamlined EA processes established by the PCs, skip directly to the design stage (aka where the project was last before it changed). Still a delay in plans, but the contracts are signed by the next election.

Remember that both the Liberals, NDP and Conservatives supported the Scarborough extension (which makes even less sense), and they'll likely see the Ontario Line as good enough for what it is.

And there's also plenty of things Toronto can do to improve its surface lines, like dedicated transit lanes- which can almost have as much of an impact as the DRL/Ontario Line without the cost.

 

[blacksquirrels]

Meh, alternative non-doomer take:
1.) Ford gets reelected with a minority government. This is more than likely given the likely Liberal candidate (Del Duca). Project goes ahead, or with minor changes if the Opposition is up to the task.
2.) Alternate pragmatic government elected to power. They declare the plan 'good enough', and the project goes ahead with minor changes/cost-cutting moves (i.e. removing Exhibition portion of the line).
3.) Alternate ideological government elected to power. They return to the DRL plans, and utilizing the streamlined EA processes established by the PCs, skip directly to the design stage (aka where the project was last before it changed). Still a delay in plans, but the contracts are signed by the next election.

Remember that both the Liberals, NDP and Conservatives supported the Scarborough extension (which makes even less sense), and they'll likely see the Ontario Line as good enough for what it is.

And there's also plenty of things Toronto can do to improve its surface lines, like dedicated transit lanes- which can almost have as much of an impact as the DRL/Ontario Line without the cost.

The most ideal scenario is that the Ontario Line gets built ASAP regardless of who's elected, re-elected etc... Hopefully it's past the point for any of the above scenarios to play out. Just start building this thing before the next election cycle without any delays. I'll stay optimistic until further delays are announced. Fingers crossed.

 

[rbt]

The most ideal scenario is that the Ontario Line gets built ASAP regardless of who's elected, re-elected etc... Hopefully it's past the point for any of the above scenarios to play out. Just start building this thing before the next election cycle without any delays. I'll stay optimistic until further delays are announced. Fingers crossed.

If ASAP is important, the TTC DRL proposal is what you want to build. That'll be true for about another 24 months, after which the Ontario Line might be the faster proposal.

 

[old boy]

Ok that makes more sense. Thanks for the breakdown.

4 car configurations should be able to accommodate roughly 750 passengers per train. So around 18,000 pphpd for 24 trains per hour, 22,500 for 30 trains per hour & 30,000 for 40 trains per hour even with 80m platforms. And it'll all be completed by 2023. Yeah this is putting Toronto to shame. Doubt we even break ground before then on the Ontario/Relief Line. Here's what I see happening. Ford probably won't get re-elected, then the new government will want to revert back to the old Relief Line plan which will require a brand new EA + more public consultations and won't break ground before the follow election cycle. Rinse and repeat. It's almost become a joke at this point. Toronto deserves better than this.

Much, much better !

 

[blacksquirrels]

If ASAP is important, the TTC DRL proposal is what you want to build. That'll be true for about another 24 months, after which the Ontario Line might be the faster proposal.

100%. Unfortunately that went out the window the minute Ford was elected.

 

[BurlOak]

100%. Unfortunately that went out the window the minute Ford was elected.

If only Toronto had put a competent person in charge of the DRL - then Ford could have gone ahead with it.

 

[Steve X]

If only Toronto had put a competent person in charge of the DRL - then Ford could have gone ahead with it.

Nah, he would have kick that person out of office and put forward his plan. Protest in front of Queen's Park? That's just lefties got nothing to do!

 

[SFO-YYZ]

I assume there'd be no chance CDPQi could pull off a similar REM-style project in the GTA anytime soon? Put up 50% of the initial bill, and responsible for everything from design, project timeline, stations, rolling stock, ownership to operating it as a separate network. At least that way there's real financial incentive from third party owner/investor to get shovels in the ground breaking the current transit portfolio cycle in the GTA. Too much to ask?