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Monorail for Toronto

Bogtrotter said:
Aren't monorails outdated, where on this planet is it a viable form of mass transit? Go to Detroit and take a look at theirs- it's a real beauty, looks like a mini elevated turnpike cutting through the downtown.

I'm also baffled why anyone would think that a large ferris wheel would be a major attraction in Toronto. The London eye is essentially just a slow moving observation platform; it was built as an alternative to traditional sightseeing towers. In my opinion any large ferris wheel would just compete with the CN tower for visitors, and probably would have minimal added value to attracting new visitors to the city. I'm not against a major attraction on the waterfront, a serious aquarium would be good for instance, but a ferris wheel doesn't make a lot of sense to me.
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Monorails outdated, hardly.
The only thing outdated about Monorails is the thinking that they are just for zoos and amuzement parks. There has been a true explosion of Monorail construction in the last 10 years but the difference today is that they are not being used for low capacity "people movers" but rather cost effective alternatives for mass/rapid transit. Sao Paulo has begun their new monorail system which will be completed by 2021 with 110km of new line and by 2030 is expected to carry up to one million passengers per day with capacity of 48,000 pphdp. Mumbai has started it's new 60km system od which the first 20km will be completed by the end of this year and the entire system by 2017. Chennai is going forward with it's whopping new 300km system which they hope will be completed by 2031 and want to begin construction next year. Bangalore has approved it's new 60km system and hope to begin construction by 2013. Chongquin recently opened their new system just 3 years ago and is already pulling in 300,000 passengers a day on just 18km of track. It is part of it's ne Metro/Monorail expansion system. A new Metro line just opened and a new monorail line will be done by the end of this year. Rio is considering a new monorail instead of Metro expansion as monorail capacity is as high as Metro but is cheaper to build than elevated Metro, can be built faster, is quieter, and less obtrusive due to much smaller track and supports. Moscow opened it's new 6km monorail which obviously proves it is a true all weather technology.
The province of Ontario just gave Bombardier funds to build a new monorail test site in Kingston Ontario to showcase it's new Innovia Monorail technology. It is probably the best new system out there due to it's very low weight, ease of maintenance, and very slender support beams. The new Sao Paulo system is using the new Bombardier Innovia system and the best part is that they are being manufactured in Kingston.
Of course Tokyo, Osaka, and five other Japanese cities have mass/rapid transit heavy monorail as does Kuala Lumper which is extending it's system by 6km and South Korea is opening it's first line this year. Singapore just opened it's first line and Germany has several already running for a long time inclusing the 100 year old Wuppertal system. Manaus, Hyderbad, Dehli, Dacca, Ho Chimin City, Islamabad, Lagos have plans in the works and Jakarta wants to renew construction on it's monorail line which had to be stopped half way thru due to the economic crisis a few years ago.
I just hope this potential monorail will be considered the beginning of a DRL as opposed to just a circular downtown route like Sydney's which goes from nowhere back to nowhere. It would be ideal if went from Queen thru Portlands to Union to the CNE and back up to Queen. It could then head north using the rail ROW already there to connect up to Bloor and Danforth. If the stations are built to 80 meter capacity that represents capacity of about 20,000 pphpd. The rule of thumb is that one standard Metro car running every 2 minutes has capacity of about 5,000 pphpd.
The best thing is that Bombardier manufactures the system right in Kingston and probably has the best system out there. Making sure Bombardier gets all TTC contracts is essential to any federal or provincial contributions and they would have 100% Ontario manufacture.
 
ssiguy2 said:
Monorails outdated, hardly.
The only thing outdated about Monorails is the thinking that they are just for zoos and amuzement parks. There has been a true explosion of Monorail construction in the last 10 years but the difference today is that they are not being used for low capacity "people movers" but rather cost effective alternatives for mass/rapid transit. Sao Paulo has begun their new monorail system which will be completed by 2021 with 110km of new line and by 2030 is expected to carry up to one million passengers per day with capacity of 48,000 pphdp. Mumbai has started it's new 60km system od which the first 20km will be completed by the end of this year and the entire system by 2017. Chennai is going forward with it's whopping new 300km system which they hope will be completed by 2031 and want to begin construction next year. Bangalore has approved it's new 60km system and hope to begin construction by 2013. Chongquin recently opened their new system just 3 years ago and is already pulling in 300,000 passengers a day on just 18km of track. It is part of it's ne Metro/Monorail expansion system. A new Metro line just opened and a new monorail line will be done by the end of this year. Rio is considering a new monorail instead of Metro expansion as monorail capacity is as high as Metro but is cheaper to build than elevated Metro, can be built faster, is quieter, and less obtrusive due to much smaller track and supports. Moscow opened it's new 6km monorail which obviously proves it is a true all weather technology.
The province of Ontario just gave Bombardier funds to build a new monorail test site in Kingston Ontario to showcase it's new Innovia Monorail technology. It is probably the best new system out there due to it's very low weight, ease of maintenance, and very slender support beams. The new Sao Paulo system is using the new Bombardier Innovia system and the best part is that they are being manufactured in Kingston.
Of course Tokyo, Osaka, and five other Japanese cities have mass/rapid transit heavy monorail as does Kuala Lumper which is extending it's system by 6km and South Korea is opening it's first line this year. Singapore just opened it's first line and Germany has several already running for a long time inclusing the 100 year old Wuppertal system. Manaus, Hyderbad, Dehli, Dacca, Ho Chimin City, Islamabad, Lagos have plans in the works and Jakarta wants to renew construction on it's monorail line which had to be stopped half way thru due to the economic crisis a few years ago.
I just hope this potential monorail will be considered the beginning of a DRL as opposed to just a circular downtown route like Sydney's which goes from nowhere back to nowhere. It would be ideal if went from Queen thru Portlands to Union to the CNE and back up to Queen. It could then head north using the rail ROW already there to connect up to Bloor and Danforth. If the stations are built to 80 meter capacity that represents capacity of about 20,000 pphpd. The rule of thumb is that one standard Metro car running every 2 minutes has capacity of about 5,000 pphpd.
The best thing is that Bombardier manufactures the system right in Kingston and probably has the best system out there. Making sure Bombardier gets all TTC contracts is essential to any federal or provincial contributions and they would have 100% Ontario manufacture.
Click to expand...

That took way longer to show up than I expected :p
 
@ssiguy2 not to mention the people mover in Detroit is based on the ICTS which is the tech behind the Scarborough RT and Vancouver SkyTrain. More to the point, a poorly built transit line will be poor regardless of technology used.

NOW Magazine has just put out an interesting piece on monorails...

That’s right. Monorail.

BY AVA BACCARI

Doug Ford’s vision for our waterfront includes a monorail to shuttle tourists (and Torontonians, if they have to) between Union Station while looping along the lakefront, Cherry Beach, and a spanking new 1.6 million-square foot mega-mall.

Did we mention the giant Ferris wheel?

And this carnivalesque overhaul can be yours in about five or six years. Or so the city councillor projects. Here’s a dose of monorail-construction reality from transit plans that faltered or failed around the world. (Springfield, not included.)

Las Vegas
After 6 months of delays which included shaft problems, software glitches that caused the trains to stop between stations, train doors to not open properly and trains to not maintain proper distance between one another, the city launched a $650-million US monorail to shuttle gamblers from casinos on the Strip to glittering resorts in 2004. The delays cost Montreal manufacturer Bombardier Inc. about $85,000 US a day in construction penalties.

Seattle
Crowds at Seattle’s 1962 World's Fair marveled at the original gleaming metallic monorail, lauded as the future of mass public transit. Almost 50 years later, the city’s monorail boasts a vast one-mile run after a series of management shake-ups and money problems delayed tracked expansion in the traffic-plagued city.

Orlando
A Walt Disney World employee died on in a monorail train collision near the entrance to the resort's Magic Kingdom theme park in 2009. What’s likely the world’s most high profile monorail system carries more than 150,000 visitors around the resort and theme-park complex.

Colorado
In 2004, the Colorado Department of Transportation scrapped plans for a $6.15 billion US monorail from Denver International Airport to Glenwood Springs. Opting to expand the I-70 Mountain Corridor highway to six lanes instead eased congestion and came with a more desirable $2.52 billion US price tag.

Newark
The world’s busiest airport monorail is the 1.9-mile engine that almost wasn’t. After more than a year of delays due to electrical problems, a change in general contractors as well as difficulties in finishing the system's complicated switching arrangement, the monorail finally opened in May 2006 (originally scheduled to open in December 1994). The cost of the $350 million monorail was originally projected at $140 million when ground first broke in 1991.

Sydney
A week after the Jan. 1 opening in 1988, Sydney's Monorail passengers were stranded in the first of a series of breakdowns before teething problems were ironed out. And its critics have been more vocal than its admirers of the $40 million system. In the original plans, operator TNT Harbourlink believed it would carry at least eight million passengers a year. Instead, it carries exactly half that.
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http://www.nowtoronto.com/daily/news/story.cfm?content=182500

The comments tear this article apart, including mine. So they felt the need to tweet this:

""Monorail is the perfect rapid transit." Commenters come to the Twin Ford's defence. http://now.uz/mTOzpb"

And here is my comment:

Most of your examples revolve around glitches and accidents which have occurred on on monorail systems. This ignores the fact that standard rail has seen plenty of accidents, and per capita monorail is much safer and more reliable as well.

You cherry picked flawed or failed systems, while ignoring the many successful examples. Osaka, Chongqing, Wuppertal, and several lines in Greater Tokyo together move millions of people everyday above city streets.

Finally, you tweet, ""Monorail is the perfect rapid transit." Commenters come to the Twin Ford's defence." One can still dislike Ford and the vast majority of their policies, while still supporting monorail as a solution to our transportation problems (the line the Fords' propose is more of an amusement styled line, the ones people here are proposing are full rapid transit lines and systems). Your logic is flawed, and it makes you look like a child!

---

Also worth noting that you mentioned a proposed monorail in Denver, and the plan was shot down in favour of a "more desirable (financially)" road widening. Surely a far-left media outlet like yourselves is aware of the long term savings of public transit; or does NOW magazine now support highway expansion over transit initiatives?

And you claim we monorail supporters are in line with Ford's views...
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Marko said:
I don't disagree and perhaps worded my reply poorly. The current board clearly has their hands full and has put the portlands on the backburner, so we're stuck with their decision to put things off at least 10 or 20 years - which I don't think is representative of what to populace actually wants.
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The plan to put things off 10 to 20 years had nothing to do with what Waterfront Toronto's desires. They have to deal with market reality and realistically you can't turn a thousand acres of land into an urban environment in less than that. Cityplace sold units as fast as it could on the railway lands they controlled and it has been about 12 years and they aren't done yet. The land Cityplace sits on is already served by transit, is not heavily contaminated, not in the floodplain, and close to existing sewer and water connections. How do you sell ten times that much office, residential, and retail space onto the market in less than 10 years and get a return on your investment? Where are the people and businesses going to come from to fill that space so quickly?
 
Even if someone HATES even the thought of a monorail in any form, one has to admit that was the most childish piece of journalism they have evr read.
BTW..........seeing this "person" like the streetcar idea so much she must have been on vacation because if memory serves isn't this the city that had the much touted Spadina streetcar ROW jump the tracks just last week and brought the entire line to a screetching halt for hours?
 
ssiguy: The video you've posted isn't working.

Yet I think I've seen it: Houston light rail trains crashing into illegally left-turning autos (despite signs and lights and an oncoming LRV equipped with bells, horns and bright lights). It's a few years old. It's not like there's been no monorail-related incidents of note (including quasi-monorails like the Toronto Zoo's).

Sorry, but to criticize a NOW article (which to its credit quickly acknowledges and gets past the Simpsons reference) for being 'childish' using such poor spelling and grammar just seems ironic.
 
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I read the comments on the NOW article, and I do not see the article being "torn apart", apart from one, Ron (Sssguy2?) defending monorails. In fact, most of the comments seem to favour LRT and Subways. Being the lefty I am, I do take many of NOW's transit articles with a grain of salt, but that is expected from an Alt-weekly. Transit isn't their strong point.

Everyone has seen that video, and everyone agrees... Houston's drivers are the worst drivers in North America. Running red lights??
 
My name is Shane not Ron. When I say something with conviction I don't hide behind false identifications.
That article was so incompetent and one sided even The Sun would blush. She never mentioned the subways deaths in Toronto ten years ago, the hundreds who die every year on the Indian commuter rail lines, the dead from the brand new Chinese high-speed rail line. Should she?.......no. All systems have eventual accidents or are failures it ussually depends on maintenance, planning, and safety precautions. Most of the new LRT lines built in the last 10 years in the US have been horrific failures when comparing the funds spent with the incredibly low ridership levels but that has nothing to do with the technology itself. Monorail has proven itself to be the safest system out there and LRT amongst the most dangerous.
Anyway if Ford wants to just build this stupid little monorail line in a loop for tourists like Sydney's then it should be faught tooth and nail. Toronto needs mass/rapid transit not amuzement park tonka-toys. Toronto's mass/rapid transit system is pathetically small as it is so the last thing it needs is to be wasting precious funds and time on tourist train.
 
NOW Magazine is like a left version of the Sun, only that it is published weekly rather than daily. Usually I find their articles somewhat intelligent, if flawed, and much better than those from the Sun. The fact that my political views are left of centre may play a part in my opinion of their writings though.

This article however, was complete trash.
 
I'd support Doug Ford's monorail idea. Its cheap and efficient, plus gives transit its own ROW right to the portlands. Now he just needs to propose extending it to Cityplace along the Union Station rail corridor, and right into Liberty Village.
 
44 North said:
Or we could use that money to build transit that people will actually use. Perhaps a DRL.
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Its crazy to think that no one would use it just because it is called a monorail. It would have high ridership if it hit Cityplace and Liberty Village. I wouldn't complain if we got the DRL instead, but this is what we have to work with for now, so might as well get something out of it.
 
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